at what point should we baptist separate?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by massdak, Aug 31, 2003.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    when some doctrine becomes more harm then biblically acceptable?
    should we separate for free will vs. Gods sovereignty?
    should we separate for altar calls vs. calls only to Christ
    should we separate for women and gay ministers vs. men only as preachers
    should we separate for Evangelical ecumenical union vs fundamental doctrine
    at what point is it best to separate?
    is the theological difference minor and worth unity?
     
  2. Taufgesinnter

    Taufgesinnter
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    Interesting that you lumped women ministers (Junia, Phoebe, et al.) and gay ministers together.
     
  3. Kent Witcher

    Kent Witcher
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    When there is theological/ doctrine difference then there is no unity.

    Sound fundamental doctrine is the key for unity.

    The guy who said we can just agree to disagree is a fool and knows nothing of the Word of God.
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Are we talking individuals (families)
    seperating from churches?
    Are we talking a church seperating from
    other churches?
    Aren't all Baptist churches basicaly SEPERATE
    anyway? (well, unless they happen to get
    in a literature pool or mission board)

    massdak: "should we separate for free will vs. Gods sovereignty?"

    No, room for both

    massdak: "should we separate for altar calls vs. calls only to Christ"

    Yes, in favor of alter calls

    massdak: "should we separate for women and gay ministers vs. men
    only as preachers"

    No, room for women/gay ministers
    but straight married-once
    men only Senior Pastors

    massdak: "should we separate for Evangelical ecumenical union vs
    fundamental doctrine"

    Yes, in favor of fundamental doctrine

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    If the British Baptist Union had separated years ago, there would be no evangelical churches left in the Union.

    If all the evangelicals had given up the Baptist Conventions in Canada, there would be no evangelicals in those pulpits to-day.

    If we all separate over twists of doctrines, personalities, we would have no churches to-day.

    Surely we have more faith in God's word than a few blokes who would lead the church astray. Preach the word and to thine own self be true; do what you have to do.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433
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    I have found over the years that I have even disagreed with myself. There have been things that I once believed but after a long time and study I see things differently. Hopefully a little wiser now.
     
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    Sometimes, gb, methinks we thinketh too much and looking back we weren't far off to begin with.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    "Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them."

    "Purge out therefore the old leaven that ye may be a new lump."

    "Come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord."

    "From such withdraw thyself."

    "From such turn away."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  9. go2church

    go2church
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    Seprate over whatever you want. Most reasons are really stupid. The theological "manuvers" that so many go through in order to be seperate are almost hilarious if the end result wasn't so sad.
     
  10. Artimaeus

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    Yes, both are true and I don't care if it seems illiogical.

    I am not familiar with this controversy (I've heard of it but not the details) but as best as I can tell, for the first 51 years of my life it has not been relevant.

    Definite deal breaker, as well as children ministers, unqualified men preachers, liberal preachers, me, my whole family, my friends, and almost everybody I know. The unique qualifications for pastors eliminates a HUGE portion of the population. Anyone can proclaim the gospel but only a few can pastor the flock.

    If it isn't fundamental, it isn't the truth and I am outta there.

    When you can no longer, with a clear conscience reccommend your church or them to others.

    MAJOR and THEY are no longer in unity with me, not the other way around.
     
  11. massdak

    massdak
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    Yes, both are true and I don't care if it seems illiogical.

    I am not familiar with this controversy (I've heard of it but not the details) but as best as I can tell, for the first 51 years of my life it has not been relevant.

    Definite deal breaker, as well as children ministers, unqualified men preachers, liberal preachers, me, my whole family, my friends, and almost everybody I know. The unique qualifications for pastors eliminates a HUGE portion of the population. Anyone can proclaim the gospel but only a few can pastor the flock.

    If it isn't fundamental, it isn't the truth and I am outta there.

    When you can no longer, with a clear conscience reccommend your church or them to others.

    MAJOR and THEY are no longer in unity with me, not the other way around.
    </font>[/QUOTE]do you believe God draws every creature, and some mens (will) is going to chose God while others free (will) is not moved via Gods drawing power?
     
  12. Norm

    Norm
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    Kent Witcher: When there is theological/doctrine difference then there is no unity. Sound fundamental doctrine is the key for unity. The guy who said we can just agree to disagree is a fool and knows nothing of the Word of God.

    Norm: Goodness, who among us is satisifed with what he or she knows and has not competing interests and understandings? And in terms of doctrine uniting us, well, generally such belief is the stuff of those less mature with love and the capability of and desire for 'letting be.' However, concerning the last sentence above, I would suggest this foolish person likely has a greater capacity to embody Christ's love for the other than his or her critics of said thinking.
     
  13. Jim1999

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    In the early days of modernism in Baptist circles, not all men separated from the Union. They were expelled from the Union and forced to start their own fellowship. There was always an attempt to hold onto the reins and lead.

    When Dr. Shields and Jarvis Street Baptist Church were expelled from the Baptist Convention, more men took a stand and followed. Perhaps more than had Dr. Shields left on his own volition.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. Artimaeus

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    Yes, God draws everyone, HIS timing, HIS method, HIS degree, HIS plan (so that they are without excuse).

    I can either say "yes", or I can say "no" and it is MY responsibility which one I say (free will) and that is the way God wants it to be (Sovereignty).
     
  15. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    massdak,

    Why don't you just split from all liberals (ie everyone). I think only then will you will finnally be free.
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    We must stand for basic doctrinal truth AND bible-based practice. Anything less is compromise.

    Fundamentalists/Evangelicals slowly left the liberal NBC (now American Baptist). There were just a handful of solid men left, vexed with the liberalism pervasive of the convention.

    There was/is no way to redeem the convention and restore it. In its counterpart, the SBC, some left but the majority of the conservative ilk stayed with the convention.

    And cleansed its schools and now the convention itself. There IS hope because they did not totally separate.

    So there are arguments going both ways.
     
  17. DCK

    DCK
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    I doubt that there's a single person on the whole planet that I agree with on every minute facet of every doctrine. Even among family and close friends there are (amiable) differences. We agree on the bigger picture of biblical authority and inspiration, but not necessarily on interpretation. Personally, I believe disputes are always going to be present among Christians, and that might be a healthy thing. These disputes draw us back to Scripture, since we might be tempted to ignore the Bible if we agreed with our fellow believers on every point. (Not that arguments are always useful. If disputes get out of hand, or are based on some personal agenda, then that is a different matter.)
     

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