Atonement: Prevailing Roman Catholic view

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    I hope our resident Roman Catholics will contribute to this thread, and I hope I can contribute; I will as much as I can, considering our current situation. I have rediscovered how much I love discussing theology.

    What is the prevailing current Roman Catholic view of the atonement? And by current, I'd say in the last 50 years or so. Is there any theologian whose view is more prevalent -- Athanasius, Anselm, Augustine, Aquinas, some modern theologian, such as Karl Rahner? Also, is Peter Abelard's view followed by many?

    Thanks, and I'm looking forward to responses, by Roman Catholics and non-Roman Catholics.
     
    #1 Michael Wrenn, Feb 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2012
  2. DaChaser1

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    the death of christ made it possible for God to save sinners, but ONLY if they avail themselves of the meritorial saraments of grace given to the RCC by god in order to be able to save us!
     
  3. Thinkingstuff

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    I don't think its changed. Here is an excerpt.
     
  4. DaChaser1

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    Forgot to add the meritorial saramental syatem that God uses per RCC to make a sinner close enough to image of chrsit to allow God to justify him at that time!

    Also forgot that sacrament of baptism washes away original sin, and regenrates a baby into the RCC, "Body of Christ"

    Forgot that a person can commit a mortal Sin and risk being in state to forfeit their salvation...


    Seems that their is more to the RCC view than was recorded here!
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

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    When you understand what we are talking about with Sacraments and understand what we are saying btw which I explianed to you in the other attonement thread then we can talk. Otherwize you are spouting nonsense.
     
  6. DaChaser1

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    What else can add to the blood of jesus shed in death upon the Cross for sins?

    One never loses relationship, just their fellowship is put on hold by willful sins acted upon...

    the Just shall live by their faith...

    Again, what else does God require for us to do to get saved and kept saved?
     
  7. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Don't you think you are being harsh and unnecessarily inflammatory?

    I have strong differences with Roman Catholicism, and I let myself get carried away sometimes with my criticism, but I was hoping this could be a constructive and informative post.

    Actually, there is some RC influence on the atonement theories of the Magisterial Reformers. And there is no RC atonement theory that I disagree with as much as I do Calvin's penal substitution.
     
  8. Melanie

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    Goodness me....here I am a resident Catholic and I am completely nonplussed by such high faluttin' talk....

    I shall continue to cook for the priory and go to Mass as often as I can and love my neighbour.....let you fellas beat the juice out of scripture.

    :smilewinkgrin::laugh::1_grouphug:
     
  9. Thinkingstuff

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    I've told you once, I've told you a million times. Nothing.

    To believe one never looses a relationship is naive. You see it in human relationships all the time. Willful sin (and let me add another aspect to the type of sin I'm talking about) that has serious matter such as adultery, murder, etc... is purposeful rebellion against God. It is saying "God, I want to go against you in my life in this area so I defy you!" That does more than put the relationship on hold.

    No disagreement there but faith is acted upon it doesn't exist in a vacuum. For instance you are standing on train tracks and your friend tells you there is a train coming. If you had faith in what your friend says you would step off the tracks and avoid the train. That is faith in your friend. If you say "yep there is a possibility that surely a train will come" but ignore his urgency that is not faith. To have faith is to obey the will of the Father. Jesus says those who DO the will of the Father are his family. Not the one who agrees that there is a father and suppose he has a will.

    God requires our acceptance of his gift. And as Jesus said to abide in him. Consider these verses.
    If we agree the fire is symbolism for hell then it becomes clear those who do not remain in him are eternally removed from him.
    and again
     
  10. DaChaser1

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    Think that you fail to see that we are secured by God Into Body of Christ, and that there is both a relationship and fellowship aspect to our salvation, and our sins mess up thefellowship until we confess the sins, but not the relationship aspect!
     
  11. Thinkingstuff

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    Ask yourself this very simple question. Jesus tells people that if they do not remain in him they will be cast out into the fire. How can then some one be asked to remain if they were never in him to begin with? It is not possible thus only people who have been saved are the subject of this verse.
     
  12. DaChaser1

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    Answer this question!

    jesus said that ALL those that the Father gave Him will be kept by power of His father, and that jesus will rise up ALL in last day, NONE given him will get lost!

    Was jesus speaking the truth here or not?

    also, some good conservative commentators on that passage you cited have suggested that we misunderstood jesus regarding that, as his point was the father would come and lift up the btanch not producing ggod fruit and 'weed it" "prune it" in order TO get good fruit!
     
    #12 DaChaser1, Feb 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2012
  13. billwald

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    >Ask yourself this very simple question. Jesus tells people that if they do not remain in him they will be cast out into the fire. How can then some one be asked to remain if they were never in him to begin with? It is not possible thus only people who have been saved are the subject of this verse.

    UNLESS "saved" is the null case.
     
  14. DaChaser1

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    have to compare that to ALL of His sayings on saved getting lost again...

    NO OTHER VERSE even mentions or supports from jesus those whom god saves can be be lost again!

    So biblcal interpretation requires another explanation, as a doctrine needs more than a single isolated support verse!
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

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    No other verse?
    OT
    2 Chronicals
    Deuteronomy
    NT
    2 Peter
    Did you say Jesus didn't say in another verse about falling away? How about this one
    Note they believe for awhile. I thought all you need was to believe once and heaven was guaranteed. I guess not. According to this verse you can once believe and then fall away.
    How can you depart from the faith if you never had it? You can't. You have to have faith in order to depart from it.
    It says there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins which means it was already given to the person but then lost it because they didn't change their lifestyles and kept on sinning. These are but a few verses out of many.
     
  16. DaChaser1

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  17. Michael Wrenn

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    Excellent response!

    I think the fundamentalists and Calvinists here are driving me to Catholicism. :laugh:
     
  18. DaChaser1

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    Why?

    NONE of his responses were applicable to this discussion, as they either reffered to false teachers with wrong doctrines among the flock, or else misunderstanding of the verses!
     

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