Bakker, Brown: What happened to Christianity?

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by JamieinNH, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    I edited the title to make it appropreiate to post...



    <- Begin Article ->





    Editor's note: Jay Bakker, son of former Praise The Lord leaders Jim Bakker and Tammy Faye Messner, is minister of Revolution Church and subject of a new documentary series, "One Punk Under God," on Sundance Channel. Marc Brown is a Revolution staff member.

    NEW YORK (CNN) -- What happened? Where did we go wrong? How was Christianity co-opted by a political party? Why are Christians supporting laws that force others to live by their standards? The answers to these questions are integral to the survival of Christianity.


    While the current state of Christianity might seem normal and business-as-usual to some, most see through the judgment and hypocrisy that has permeated the church for so long. People witness this and say to themselves, "Why would I want to be a part of that?" They are turned off by Christians and eventually, to Christianity altogether. We can't even count the number of times someone has given us a weird stare or completely brushed us off when they discover we work for a church.


    So when did the focus of Christianity shift from the unconditional love and acceptance preached by Christ to the hate and condemnation spewed forth by certain groups today? Some say it was during the rise of Conservative Christianity in the early 1980s with political action groups like the Moral Majority. Others say it goes way back to the 300s, when Rome's Christian Emperor Constantine initiated a set of laws limiting the rights of Roman non-Christians. Regardless of the origin, one thing is crystal clear: It's not what Jesus stood for.

    STORY LINK




    Jamie
     
    #1 JamieinNH, Dec 14, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2006
  2. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find
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    Shock jocks?
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    I think his rant and critique about the hypocrisy of the church, and all those tattoos and rings are but manifestations of both his love and hate for his own father.
    If he is one of God's own, he will come around in due time.
    Jesus told Paul: It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
    True then, true now.
     
  4. Daisy

    Daisy
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    Come around to what? Embracing the Moral Majority? Joining the Republican Party?
     
  5. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    Although I don't like the way they are seemingly spreading their message I do have to wonder if there is any truth to it.

    Did we, as Christians change from a helping, loving people to a "it's all about politics" people?

    Where in the Bible did politics get talked about or concerns rasied as much as we do today?

    Have we changed for the worse? Is that hurting the church? Is that keep people away? Again, I don't like the way they seemingly put the message out, but I do have to wonder if they have a point.

    Jamie
     
  6. carpro

    carpro
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    It seems that the message is that Christians should be entirely apolitical.

    That would mean no voting, no holding public office, and never voicing a political opinion (especially one based on a Biblical principle).

    Actually it sounds more like sour grapes from one who is willing to check his Christianity and his Biblical principals (if he has any) at the door to the voting booth and doesn't understand why other Christians won't forget who they are and what they represent along with him.

    :flower:
     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    No. He'll be stupid to do that. Come around to humbling himself before his Creator as Paul did, and realizing that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and no one in church or out of it is free from being hypocritical. We all have our hypocrisies. I recall that story about somebody who said he did not want to join a church because the people there were hypocrites, and the answer he got was, "there's room for one more".
     
    #7 pinoybaptist, Dec 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2006
  8. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    Actually Carpro,

    I think you can be both.. Why can't we as Christians preach the word and spread the good news, and thus help bring more people to Christ and thus have more people that would vote with Christian values, vers Hammer home our "policital" message in the hopes they get it through their "thick skull?

    When and where did Jesus preach or teach about which party was better or not. Which World Policies he would like to push in his adgenda?

    I think if we were to be more like Christ and do what he commaned us to do, we as Christians would naturally vote for the right person without "hammering it home".

    I just think that as Christians, this article makes some sense in that we focus too much on Politics and not spreadig the good news.

    Jamie
    The Great Commission never told us to be sure to vote in the right party....
     
  9. bound

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    If there is no objective morality in which a Godly people most live, or at the very least strive to live, then politics is the wrong grounds in which to struggle in establishing a Nation 'under God'.

    Clearly the 'winds of change' is upon us and Americans are reflecting on the last several years of what some might describe as the reign of a conservative agenda and find it leaving a bitter taste in their mouth.

    As Christians, we are to be beyond such things, to strive singlemindedly for establishing a society which reflects morals of the heavenly kingdom and not our own ralativistic fancy of the time.

    Somewhere between the extremes (liberal and conservative) lies a noble path which seeks to establish a Nation 'under God' as well as a society which is ever expressing Charity and Mercy. Anytime in which one extreme prevails it is always at the expense of the other.

    It's what makes Christianity both difficult and dynamic.
     
  10. carpro

    carpro
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    The suggestion seems to be that it's OK to be a Christian and vote like one as long as we're quiet about it.

    It also seems to suggest that for a Christian to be pro life or against the sin of homosexuality is OK as long as we don't take a public stand. In other words, don't dare tell anyone why we are pro life or why homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle.

    What the real agenda is here is that liberals just want Christians, especially conservative Christians, to shut their mouths about politics. Period.

    IOW If we can't be apolitical, then we can at least have the decency to be quiet about why we vote the way we do.
     
  11. The Galatian

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    It's only a minority of Christians who have sold their souls for a party affiliation. Many of the Christians who voted Republican, changed their minds in the last election.
     
  12. JamieinNH

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    Did Jesus take a public stand in a political way? Verse please.

    I sort of in a round about way agree with you, but I don't. I agree we should take a stand, and I believe it should be silent, kinda.

    Ok, confussed yet? :)

    I believe as a Christian we should preach and teach the word.
    (that to me is taking a stand)

    I believe as a Christian, the more people we help bring to Christ, the more good we will help bring about.
    (this to me will make the political process work, as more Christians vote with the new founded values they have, since they know Christ, the better the person is that is elected)

    I believe we do need to continue to work for change, I just think we should work it from the pulpit/street preaching and not the political arena. There is more power in a good sermon or good evangelical outreach then anyone saying we should vote for X because Y is bad or sinful.

    Understand? We almost agree, only I believe we should use a different route to get there.



    Jamie
     
  13. hillclimber1

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    I didn't think anyone would get it. Carpro does.
     
  14. Alcott

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    Lulke 13:31-32 -- Just at that time some Pharisees approached, saying to Him, "Go away, leave here, for Herod wants to kill You." And He said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal.'
     

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