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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by plain_n_simple, May 9, 2013.
"When the day of Pentecost came, they [the disciples] were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." (Acts 2:1-4)
"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers [Jews] who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." (Acts 10:44-48)
"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." (Acts 19:1-6)
"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ... When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:12-17)
(Simon SAW something when they received the Holy Spirit. Something was manifested in order for Simon to SEE).
"Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized" (Acts 9:17-18)
(Paul said in 1 Cor. 14:18 "I thank my God, I speak in tongues more than ye all")
So my question is why would three of the five examples show that they spoke in tongues and the other two does not?
We know something was manifested in Acts 8 in order for Paul to see.
We know Paul spoke in tongue.
Acts is an inspired historical record of the Apsotolic church, and it is a Book of transistion, and those Tongues that you listed ALL were in that transistion period, as the lord gave the gift of tongues to the Apsotles, as a witness to Jesus as the Lord/messiah, and to the samiritans/gentiles, to show the jewish believers God would save them thru jesus also!
NOT to be taken as normal for today!
How can something not in the bible be considered 'awesome?"
You have yet to prove that!
See the hypocrisy here. You demand proof from him. If I or anyone else demands the same from you, you get arrogant, protective, defensive, and offended. Your answer is "Get out of my personal life."
So let me ask you the same question that you just asked:
Give me proof (evidence) that the Biblical gift of healing is still operative today, as Peter demonstrated it in Acts 5:16.
Give me proof (evidence) that the Biblical gift of tongues is still operative today as those in Acts demonstrated in that they spoke in actual languages that others could understand.
Give me proof (evidence) that the gift of miracles is still in existence today by pointing to anyone who can perform miracles at will.
You give the proof. And when you have given the proof, then you will have disproven that it is a book of transition, but not until then.
Historically, the Church held to the power gifts like healing/miracles passed away, as did tongues!
Onus on yuo to prove they didn't, as the Charasmatics claim past 100 years they did not, or else were given back to us!
Do you hold the lord gave thm back to us in 1905?
NOthing about my statement was personal! I simple said he has not proven from scriptures that the book of Acts was just a transitional book! YOu can not prove it!
Stick to scriptures to prove a point!
I hold to the truth in the Bible! He never took them away!
The mission field has given all the proof anyone needs that Charismatic/Pentecostal doctrine is a lie.
Your proof is in not proven from scripture!
On many threads, I and others have proven from scripture in context that your doctrine is false, unscriptural, and anti-scriptural. The mission field confirms it.
The gifts have ceased.
I have given you Scripture.
I have given you history--1900 years of it.
I have given you this current age--no evidence.
I have challenged you. You can't provide any evidence.
The Conclusion: The gifts have ceased. There is no evidence and you can't provide any. We all have shown you Scripture, but you reject it, dismiss it, don't believe it.
Why is it that the world can not receive the Holy Ghost? Only believers can!
NO, only your opinion or your own interpretation which contradict other scriptures!
And every believer receives the Holy Spirit at salvation without tongues.
Tongues are not given to every believer and never were.
Nowadays they are not given to any believer. If they were you would be able to tell me the languages that God has given you to speak in. But you can't because it is not God that has given you the Biblical gift of languages. You have been deceived into thinking you have a gift from God, when you don't. It is a fraudulent gift, that is unlike any gift that the NT believers ever had. The NT believers did not speak gibberish like you do.
I challenged you to be honest and present how many instances there are in all the NT of the giving of the Holy Spirit being delayed and the evidence of tongues with this. You have not responded. So, come on, how many instances of this are there in all of the NT?
Multiple times you have been given the undeniable explanation of each of these instances, but you deny the truth. Taken in context, there is absolutely no refutation possible of the "why" of each instance. You can ignore it, feign incomprehension, deny it, deflect, spin, twist, contort, say that it is only an opinion or interpretation, but the facts are there for anyone to see who has a grain of discernment and common sense. These passages were understood in the same way by the ENTIRE CHURCH for 1900 years, until Parham and Seymour invented their occult-influenced doctrines and had to twist the scriptures to make their ungodly, unscriptural doctrines and practices seem to fit these scriptures when they most certainly did not; rather, they had to mangle the scriptures to achieve their purpose.
So, come on, I dare you and challenge you if you have any integrity to tell us how many instances there are in the whole NT of the giving of the Spirit being delayed and the tongues manifest with it? How many instances?
We all know the answer to that, and we know and have shown you many times the "WHY" of each instance. This is irrefutable.
The Disciples were saved (received the indwelling Holy Spirit) in John 20:22.
They received the Spirit upon for power in Acts 2.
They were believers first!
Acts 8 they BELIEVED AND WERE BAPTIZED...later they received the Holy Spirit upon (vs. 17).
Acts 10 They received both at the same time...later baptized!
Acts 19 They were believers ...later the Holy Spirit came upon them!
Acts 9 Paul was saved on the road to Damascus...later hand were laid upon him to be filled with the Holy Spirit. He said he spoke in tongue more than all(1 Cor. 14)!
Everyone receives the indwelling Holy Spirit at salvation!
It nowhere says they were baptised in the Holy Spirit. They were NOT. They were baptised "IN THE NAME", "Peter SPEAKING" proclaiming "the NAME" ... "for they [the Gentiles] HEARD them [the apostles] SPEAKING". "They heard THEM speaking in tongues ("everyone heard [THEM] in his own tongue"), Peter, praising God, saying: "Can anyone forbid because of water these people be baptised?"