Baptism

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by FriendofSpurgeon, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
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    Scenario:

    Susan attends a Baptist church. Susan's close friend (Julie) and Julie's boyfriend (Tom) have been visiting her church quite regularly. Recently Julie went forward during an invitation for a profession of faith. She also wanted to be baptized. The pastor has refused to baptize her since she and Tom are living together.

    This is a true story, though names have been changed. So what say you? What is the correct Scriptural stance on this?
     
  2. Pastor David

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    The pastor should refuse to baptise her. He should carefully explain that her situation with her boyfriend is wrong and should be resolved as soon a possible. If she has truly repented of her sins, and has shown a new faith in Christ she will insist they seperate. After those issues have been resolved, she should be happily baptized and received into the church.
     
  3. BD17

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    Honestly can't say since I dont believe altar calls are biblical.
     
  4. Amy.G

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    I have never read anything in the bible that even remotely implies that we have to clean up our lives before we are baptized.

    If she made a profession of faith in Christ, she should not be forbidden baptism. Should we also forbid professions of faith until the person has forsaken all there worldly ways?

    If the pastor forbid her baptism, he might as well forbid her from coming to the altar until she stops living with the boyfriend.

    As far as altar calls being biblical, there is nothing written in scripture for or against it, but certainly professions of faith are biblical, which is what this woman did.


    Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
     
  5. sag38

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    I would baptize her but I could not present her to the church for membership.
     
  6. bound

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    Don't tell that to the 3000 at Pentecost... :tongue3:
     
  7. MorganT

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    I agree with this 100 percent. We all have sins in our life including that Pastor who refused to baptize this girl. I believe that the Pastor is trying to be the Judge and Jury on this and is stepping over his boundaries. Lets look to scripture and see what it says

    Act 8:35-38 Then Philip opened his mouth and began at the same Scripture and preached the gospel of Jesus to him. (36) And as they passed along the way, they came on some water. And the eunuch said, See, here is water, what hinders me from being baptized? (37) Philip said, If you believe with all your heart, it is lawful. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still. And they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch. And he baptized him.

    Philip told the eunuch in verse 37 that all he had to do was to believe with all your heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD. And we should take that to mean the same for us today in order to be Baptized. Unfortunatly people today see baptizm as joining the Country Club and they can say who can join and who cant and that is simply not biblical
     
  8. Pastor David

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    "I have never read anything in the bible that even remotely implies that we have to clean up our lives before we are baptized."


    "Repent and be baptized" ~ Acts 2:38a
     
  9. BD17

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    The 3000 at pentecost were not asked to walk up to the front and say they believe in Christ. They were also all non-believers, not a church. Different situation.
     
  10. SBCPreacher

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    I fear that we will be seeing more and more of this in our churches. There are a few couple living together attending our church, but they are not members. The best thing they can do, if they plan to live together, is get married! And I can handle that for them free of charge!
     
  11. Amy.G

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    Do you think Paul refused baptism for all those Corinthian sinners he wrote about?
    When we believe, we are "cleaned up" by Christ, not by the water. The water is a symbol of our death, burial and resurrection in Christ. He cleans the inside. We spend the rest of our lives cleaning up the outside. We don't become holy overnight or between the altar and the baptismal water.
     
  12. Pastor David

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    Baptism is a grand and glorious picture of having our sins washed away. Paul puts it this way in Romans 5 saying we've been buried with Christ by baptism, and raised in newness of life. But this also make baptism a very important event - something which should not be taken too lightly.

    By being baptized into Christ, you are professing to live a new life, to turn from your former ways and to live unto Him. If a person is truly converted by the power of the Holy Spirit, the fruits of repentance in their life should be readily appearent. They should be prepared to cast off those things which are not a faithful witness and good testimony for their new life in Christ Jesus.

    If a person who has recently professed faith comes and seeks baptism from a local church, and the church tells them they need to remove themselves from open sin before they can be baptized and received into the church, the truly converted person should have no issue with this. This protects both the witness of the person seeking to be publically identified with the Body of Christ and Christ's church whose witness and testimony is also at stake.
     
  13. Darron Steele

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    There is no authority in Scripture to refuse to do as Matthew 28:19-20 expressly says “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations|. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything that I have taught you,| and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (NASB|NCV|NASB).

    Jesus Christ told us to "baptize" "disciples" and He placed the directive between making them and teaching them, meaning baptism is to be prompt. There is absolutely no authority to disregard that directive and withhold baptism from converts.
     
  14. bound

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    How does the Roman Church and Orthodox Churches manage to impose requirements to Baptism?
     
  15. annsni

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    Sanctification isn't instantaneous. Baptize her and get her discipled.
     
  16. Salty

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  17. FriendofSpurgeon

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    Questions:
    Does baptism always indicate a desire to join a particular church?
    What other "open sins" should someone remove themselves from before they are allowed to be baptized?
    How quickly are the "fruits of repentance readily apparent"?

    Additional background: Julie had a normative religious upbringing, but never really heard the Gospel until she began attending my sister's church. BTW, I don't think Julie ever thought of living with her long-term boyfriend before marriage as "open sin." They love & care for each other and are actually engaged to be married (with no date set). In addition, her boyfriend is a Christian (long story).
     
  18. MorganT

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    We all sin, even you and me, its in our nature and as much as we try not to sin we still do. The Pastor had no Biblical position to stand on with this young lady. NONE. If we looked at it the way that you do and tell people to get the SIN OUT OF THERE LIVES, no one and I mean no one would ever get baptized, you and I both know that.

    Rom 7:14-25 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. (15) For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do. (16) If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good. (17) But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me. (18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find. (19) For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do. (20) But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me. (21) I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me. (22) For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man; (23) but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members. (24) O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    I recently dealt with this. Since baptism is an entry rite into the local church, you would be baptizing someone you would have to immediately discipline. Better to teach them the gospel thorough and avoid the situation.

    When I dealt with it, I explained to the couple what the Bible taught about the meaning of baptism as a public confession of Christ as Lord, and about the incompatibility of continuing willfully in known sin, and they immediately understood and decided to get married. It was really pretty easy when you depend on the Bible rather than man's ideas.
     
  20. Darron Steele

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    Where does the Bible teach any of this?

    Keep in mind that I am a former Baptist. I was never convinced that the Bible teaches this.

    If so, then the pastor should baptize the converts promptly, rather than disobey Matthew 28:19-20.

    Anytime the Bible tells us to do something, and we do not do it, we sin. Anytime we refuse to do what the Bible says based upon ideas which Scripture does not teach, we follow "man's ideas" above the Bible -- and continue willfully in sin.
     
    #20 Darron Steele, Feb 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2009

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