Baptist And The American Indian

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by tyndale1946, Apr 28, 2003.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    For our counrty to grow into the nation it is today with all its faults and failures other nations must be conquered. That is the way of progress down through the history of time.

    Escavation that have been done in the ancient cities of the east in other countries have proven that cities were built upon cities... Layer upon layer culture upon culture and peoples upon peoples.

    Bloodshed is the only way and no nation that has been conquered goes peacefully... So it is with the American Indian in our time and in the time of our ancestors and theirs. Are they the savages and cutthroats that they appear to be in film and pulp publication?... Or were they only trying to protect their people, culture, and belief from those who would take it away and replace it with something unknown to them?

    What of the colorful names that have graced our history... The Commanche... The Sioux... The Cherokee... The Crow... The Blackfoot... The Seminole... The list goes on and on... The various leaders or chiefs... Sitting Bull... Geronimo... Crazy Horse... Cochise... A list that also goes on and on.

    How do the baptist and others fit into all this... And is there a reason to replace their belief with ours?... They believed in heaven did they not?... Where did they get that belief?... Before the white man came they buried their dead and gave them supplies for their journey to the happy hunting ground?... They had a great respect for the land and all things in it had a purpose and a reason in the eyes of their creator.

    Speaking as a Primitive Baptist I leave others alone to persue the belief that the good Lord gave them. If the good Lord wanted them to believe something else would not he have given them something else to believe?... Why do we believe what we believe and are not embracing some other belief?... Were these Indians not Gods blood bought children also... And would our yeah yeah or nay nay make it not so?

    Down though history the religious landscape has been strewn with the bones of peoples and cultures who tried to serve God in their own manner. Did God give the order that these are Amalakites or were they only that in our eyes?... This is a truth that cannot be denied... The way to eternal salvation is by the shed blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ... But it has also been proven down through history that the evil shedding of mens blood by men can never make it so!... God is the conquerer of the sins of man no matter what the race... "IT IS ALL OF GRACE" ... Brother Glen [​IMG] & [​IMG] Sister Charlotte [​IMG]

    [ April 28, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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  3. Frogman

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    Brother Glen,

    I have thought about this in the past; I have been thinking about it since your first post. I will try to post something later. Thanks for the links, may help lead my thoughts.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  4. Wisdom Seeker

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    My paternal great grandmother was Cherokee. Link to the history of the Cherokee

    I would like to add a couple of thoughts, tribes varried as to their religious practices and social attitudes so this should be taken into consideration when discussing them. Also, the names we know tribes by, are not the same as what they called themselves.

    In Christ,
    Wisdom Seeker
     
  5. tyndale1946

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    I'm just an ignorant... uninformed white man and am not afraid to say so. I respect all Gods people even though their views are not my views. Where did the Indians get their beliefs if it wasn't from God?... Where did they get their laws that governed their lives and their interaction with each other and nature?... I feel these are pertenent questions and Helen and Barry may drop by and give us all a history lesson or some good links to find out the truth... Error is everywhere and the truth is sometimes hidden underneath it!... Brother Glen [​IMG] & [​IMG] Sister Charlotte [​IMG]
     
  6. Frogman

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    Same here Wisdom Seeker; and my maternal grand-father has an ancestry of Mexican Indian.

    I would add some information I think is relevant concerning a tribe in South America, Colombia and Venezuala I think was there territory. The Montelone (maybe mispelled), I will look, they are referenced in the book 'Bruchko' of which I believe Helen is familiar (and maybe others), my point is they were visited by a young American during the 1960's after God put them on his heart. There story was that the people, themselves, at one time did know the trail which God walked, but man had lost this trail and could not find it, though he spent his lifetime looking for it.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  7. Ben W

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    Check out Pastor Chets site listed onhis profile. He works in fulltime ministry with American Indians. He is doing an amazing work in a largley ignored field.
     
  8. Mark R

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    My pastor growing up was Chocktaw (spelling?) Indian from Oklahoma. He used to say (he could get away with it) that the best thing that ever happened to the Indians was to be conquered and introduced to Christianity. Without that, he would say, we'd still be worshipping snakes and the sun. Like I said, he could say those things with some credibility.
     
  9. mark

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    Yes, this shows "Romans 8:28
    And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[ 8:28 Some manuscripts And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God] who[ 8:28 Or works together with those who love him to bring about what is good–with those who] have been called according to his purpose." The treatment of the American Indians was not right, but for many (my ancestors for some) it did work for good. The taking of African slaves would be another example. Some good came from what was meant for evil.
     
  10. Popeye

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    I disagree with that line of reasoning. Whenever one people controls another by force it is wrong. When one people take a person's life, livlihood, home, it's just wrong. I'm sorry, but my wife's family members were killed brutally, and I don't think it was God working for good in this case, I think it was Satan working for evil.
     
  11. Helen

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    I agree with Popeye here. The Israelites are the only people who were ever given a land by God, and they had to wait until the evil of the Amorites had reached 'full measure'. The Lord told the rest of us to out into the world and teach, not conquer.

    Survival of the fittest is not a Christian theme for human beings!
     
  12. mark

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    I didn't say God was working for good in that, and I don't think the Bible says that either, but God took something that Satan intended for evil and turned to something good. God didn't put in the hearts of Joseph's brothers to sell him to Egyptian slavery, but God took it and used it for good. I am not saying slvers intended it for good, nor am I saying God initiated it, but God did bring about good from it.
     
  13. just-want-peace

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    Popeye, I hope you are not saying what comes across to me!
    If you are, then you have a quarrel with God, not mark!

    Please tell me that I misinterpreted your post!! :confused:
     
  14. Kiffin

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    I completely agree with Mark. God is sovereign. It does not mean God endorsed the evil against either the Native Americans (Of which I am kin) or the African slaves. Some good came from what was meant for evil (mainly they were introduced to the Gospel). The same is true with Alexander the Great's conguests and the Roman Empire. God is in control of History.
     
  15. Wisdom Seeker

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    When Hitler tried to commit genocide of the Jews and the Poles and the Insane and any other people he thought were in the way of his evil plan to take over the world...can you tell me what was good in any of that?!

    I'm sorry to speak of something that happened so long ago to make a point. But how the native Americans were treated, was similar, even if we don't want to acknowledge it. And if it makes anyone feel better to say that it was because the White man was trying to teach the heathens about God...I would ask you to check out the facts. I'm sorry, the only good I can find in the Trail of Tears is that not all of my relatives died while making that journey, and I am here because one survived.

    I agree, I think that evil was working, not good.
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Is it interesting that our God is the only God... If you get my drift... Is not God the God of all people and who are we to say that the one we think is devoid of God to our understanding does not belong to him?... Question if one believes in God does he not belong to God?... Don't give the scripture the devil believe in God and tremble either... There is one thing that is not added that those who believe in God do... Those who believe in God worship and fear him in godly fear... Show me one scripture that says the devils worship God?... Now who exactly are the heathens?... Wisdom Seeker I am glad and only by the grace of God you are here... This white man is happy that your heritage goes on even though my forefathers tried to destroy it [​IMG] ... My Indian Sister In The Lord... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  17. Kiffin

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    Not, referring to that though God certaintly permitted it.

    No one here is saying what was done to them was good or that the Trail of tears was a good thing. Certaintly these actrocities were evil. God is however sovereign and allows these things. I am part Native American. Would I be better off living in a pagan worshipping society of the idol worship of my ancestors and tribal warfare OR would I be better off in the society I live in today where the Gospel is freely available? Would North America have been better as a wilderness of sparring, warring tribes that could have done little against a Hitler or is this land better off as a industrialized united Superpower that has defeated, Nazi Germany, Imperialistic Japan and the Soviet Union? What man intented for Evil, God worked out for good I believe is the answer.
     
  18. Squire Robertsson

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    As for God causing all things to work together for good, please complete the verse. In the present discussion, that text is being taken somewhat out of context. That being said, the God Who we serve is The Soveriegn God. Why He allows certain actions is unknowable by man.

    A brother last night during Bible Study made this comment:
    The pre-Colombian inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere were/are the last in a long line of native populations (Britons, Celts, Basque, et al) to be devestated by mankind's westward migrations.
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    [ May 14, 2003, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: SheEagle9/11 ]
     
  20. PJ

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    Same here, and I was blessed to share some precious moments with my great grandmother before she passed on. I am grateful she was a believer.

    'Tis true. Each and every one of us are a part of God's master plan. He was, is, and will always be in control. Our acceptance of His plan is sometimes the hardest part.
    PJ
     

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