Baptist Pastor Dismayed by Worldliness of New Calvinist Conferences

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jerome, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. Jerome

    Jerome
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    "Together for the Gospel" Conference? a "sad spectable"
    John MacArthur's "Resolved" Conference? "carnal entertainment", "totally worldly"
    link
     
  2. BaptistBob

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    So the complaint apparently was mostly concerning music and worship with evangelical believers that have other theological views?
     
  3. OldRegular

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    A quote from here:

    link

    Worldly, sensation-stirring, high-decibel, rhythmic music is played in many churches? with "contemporary, culturally correct worship services" today regardless of doctrine. I have questioned whether such constitutes true worship on another thread. I do so once again.

    There are some advantages to being old.
     
  4. Mexdeaf

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    One big disadvantage of being old is you stop growing.
     
  5. annsni

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    Well, since my husband and daughter attended Passion '07, and can testify to the lives changed, hearts touched and renewed vision for God, I think this pastor is just stuck in the 50's Christianity. Yes, there is music - music from such horrible song writers as Matt Redman, Charlie Hall, David Crowder and Chris Tomlin. There was terrible teaching from the likes of Louie Giglio who challenged the students there to go to school in places like New York City where there is a wide open mission field just crying out for the Word of God. My husband took 7 teens down with him. 2 are on the mission field right now in Africa, one is in seminary, 1 is a new youth pastor and the remaining are continuing at home in college and ministry here. They were challenged deep in their hearts to give their lives fully and totally to the Lord. Is that a bad thing? Yeah, there is loud music but does that make it evil? I don't think so.

    I respect pretty much every man that is mentioned in the article. I have listened to their teaching and have found it to be solid. I don't always agree with 100% everything they say but I don't think there's a person alive who has it perfect - including me.

    I do find that there are those who grew up in the church in the 50s and 60s who find that the church today is too "modern" for them. If it's not the Gaithers, it's not good music. If it's not a pastor in a suit, there's something wrong. If the pastor doesn't use a pulpit, he's teaching heresy. But that doesn't make all of that true.
     
  6. Tom Butler

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    I am a Calvinist who is not a fan of some of the modern worship music. I am old, just like old Regular, and am culturally and generationally attuned to more traditional church music (including Gaither stuff).

    As a geezer, I just don't identify with the contemporary stuff, and don't find that it aids in my worship. I recognize that many people find that it does, but for the most part it is distracting and jarring to the senses to me.

    I will not be as hard on Dr. Masters' targets as he is. But one should not reject his views out of hand. He is a serious theologian and should be taken seriously.

    And you young whippersnappers who think the world was created the day you were born need to listen to us geezers on occasion. Don't we all remember how our parents were just old, out of touch and didn't understand us? And how amazed we were that the older we got, the smarter our parents got?
     
  7. annsni

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    Hey - I hope you're referring to me as a young whippersnapper!! I'd LOVE to be a young whippersnapper. I guess I'm probably more on the young side here (I'm 44 - am I right??) but I'm realizing more and more that I'm really not young anymore. LOL
     
  8. BaptistBob

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    I'm no longer a Calvinist, so perhaps I should be quite. However, with regard to worship, I look at the hearts of the people involved. If they are praising God from the heart, then I will be satisfied , even if the music makes me want to run out of the room. If, however, the people leading worship are getting glory for themselves or their music, I will not support it.

    And, yes, I can worship with people that disagree with me on non-essential issues.
     
    #8 BaptistBob, Jul 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2009
  9. Tom Butler

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    Oh, yes you are. Take this from a septuagenarian. Forty-somethings look very, very young to me. By the way, I've heard this all my life, and used it in a post, but I have no idea what a whippersnapper is--except that he/she is always young.

    It must be that as one grows older, they exit whippersnapper-hood.
     
  10. rbell

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    I completely respect your viewpoint. (And not just because you're my elder! :laugh:) There's an important distinction I want to point out:

    You said, "I'm not a fan of it...and here's why:" I appreciate that, and as a believer, your preferences are as valid as mine. I should do my very best to respect those...and if I'm going out of my way to offend them, then I have a problem.

    What you did not do, and I've seen folk on both sides of the aisle do it, is say..."That other stuff is not of God." Big problem...and not a very good thing to say. I appreciate how you worded your thoughts.


    Does that explain the hair growing in the ears? :eek: :D
     
  11. Bob Alkire

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    I grew up in the 40's and 50's and the Gaithers music isn't what was used back then. Southern Gospel music wasn't used either, more like Shea and Smith, to name a couple.

    When I was in school they pointed out the dress, music and style of preaching (which included no pulpit) of our Pentecostal friend ( a lot of their doctrine) were taken over main line churches. Keep in mind this was a Presbyterian seminary. I believe they were correct.
     
  12. OldRegular

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    That is not necessarily true. A lot of old people grow around the middle.

    I realize that your post was a poorly disguised slur. The fact is that much of what people call worship today is simply a rock concert. That is not growth, that is a return to paganism.
     
    #12 OldRegular, Jul 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2009
  13. rbell

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    That's why God created weight watchers :laugh:

    I don't want the job of the one who determines what constitutes worship and what doesn't. Do you? I leave that job up to God Himself.
     
  14. Tom Butler

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    Thanks for not kowtowing to my advanced age.

    I am a product of my culture and my generation--Southern, West Tennessee, West Tennessee Southern Baptist, later Western Kentucky Baptist. One of our slogans is "I know what I like and iI like what I know."

    I actually do like some of the contemporary choruses but not most. They are quite worshipful. But they all sound alike to me and most are pretty shallow. I like some Southern Gospel but not all. Some of them are pretty shallow, as well. I like the heavy stuff, like Handel's Messiah. I like some upbeat old songs and some slow old songs. Properly used, I can handle even electric guitars and drums.

    So I don't think I'm completely stuck in the 1950s.
     
  15. sag38

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    "Properly used, I can handle even electric guitars and drums."

    But here's the question. Who defines "properly used?" Is there a verse in the Bible that tells us how to use an electric guitar or a drum set?
     
  16. OldRegular

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    God said that His people would worship in Spirit and in Truth.

    Rock music, and its derivatives, may be spirited but it is not spiritual from the Christian standpoint. It is pagan in origin and has an erotic beat. God did not leave us ignorant regarding the pattern of Christian worship. In 1 Corinthians 14:26-33 the Apostle Paul speaks of the appropriate manner of Christian worship.

    The Old Testament is replete with stories of the Israelites departing from the mode of worship which God defined and the chastening that God used in an attempt to bring the Israelites in line. With the division of the kingdom Jeroboam of the Northern Kingdom established idols at Bethel and Dan to keep the people from going to Jerusalem to worship. He also made priests of those who were not from the tribe of Levi. Eventually the Northern Kingdom went into captivity for their apostasy never to return. The Southern Kingdom went into captivity many years later for the same reason. God eventually brought them back because Jesus Christ was to come through the tribe of Judah.
     
  17. Grasshopper

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  18. OldRegular

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  19. Tom Butler

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    Why, naturally I will define proper use. Proper is what I say it is.
     
  20. Mexdeaf

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    I don't know how old you are, sir. I am in my mid-50's.

    And I have learned that a lot of stuff that I so strongly believed when I was in my 20's and 30's was wrong. Some of that was concerning ALL rock music being "of the devil."

    I am no fan of rock (I much prefer Southern gospel male quartets). But I have learned that God is not bound by MY musical preferences. And I have learned to appreciate diverse music styles, even if they aren't my kind of music.

    I just get fed up with people of ANY age who demand that God can't do "this or that" because "we never did it that way before" or "it's of the world so it has to be bad". They set their likes and dislikes up as being the standard.

    I remember when wire-rimmed glasses, facial hair, guitars in the pulpit, computers in church offices and the Gaithers were "of the devil." I wonder, when did God change His mind and declare that those things were ok?

    Truth of the matter was it was never of God- it was always of man and man's own invention to call those things sin. God never did so. It is the same with musical styles.

    God and his standards do not change. Man and his understanding/application of God's standards does.
     

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