Baptist Pastor Dismayed by Worldliness of New Calvinist Conferences

oh come on now.....I simply don't think think there is anything unscriptural going on.....you do, but you just want to throw labels out on something you have very little if any experience with, accusing people of ungodly motives. You're the one who wants to say it. I think it is very easy to figure out a song writers motives by simply looking at his/her lyrics. Have you ever read Bob Kauflin's blog, www.worshipmatters.com? If you really want to sense the heart of one of the main influences in the new calvinist music movement, I suggest you check it out and see where his heart is on the issue.
O.K....i know the Passion conferences were mentioned somewhere else in this thread, and quite honestly, I'm not totally thrilled with SOME of the music that was done, but I don't think you could necessarily label it as part of the new calvinist movement, although there were a few elements of it there.

If there was someone on here saying how terrible old traditional hymns were because they were boring, than I would be all over their case too. That crowd drives me just as crazy. When we argue about music style, it just tells the world that we believe music has more power to divide than the gospel does to unite.

 

Usually when I asked older people about what their parents said about them it is much the same thing.

Is there really anything new under the sun?

Ps. 150:3-5, "Praise Him with trumpet sound; Praise Him with harp and lyre. Praise Him with timbrel and dancing; Praise Him with stringed instruments and pipe. Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with resounding cymbals.

 

Anyone that quotes Psalm 150 as a 'proof text' for the use of any and every instrument in church worship simply does not understand context of scripture, and when they do so, they make God contradict Himself when He gave express statements to David LIMITING the instruments to accompany singing in the temple.

 

We are not to worship God devoid of emotion. Who said anything like that? But our emotions are not to be manipulated by the music, but by the words (thoughts of God and His works).

Repetitive choruses, Christian 'love songs' (that say very little or worse yet, say the wrong thing), have a hypnotic emotional effect on people, and as such have no place in the worship of God where we are to have our whole minds engaged in the act.

 

Why is that?

 

136:1-26, Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. Give thanks to the God of gods, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. Give thanks to the Lord of lords, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. To Him who alone does great wonders, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; To Him who made the heavens with skill, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; To Him who spread out the earth above the waters, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; To Him who made [the] great lights, For His lovingkindness is everlasting: The sun to rule by day, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, The moon and stars to rule by night, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. To Him who smote the Egyptians in their firstborn, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, And brought Israel out from their midst, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, With a strong hand and an outstretched arm, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. To Him who divided the Red Sea asunder, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, And made Israel pass through the midst of it, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; But He overthrew Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. To Him who led His people through the wilderness, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; To Him who smote great kings, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, And slew mighty kings, For His lovingkindness is everlasting: Sihon, king of the Amorites, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, And Og, king of Bashan, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, And gave their land as a heritage, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, Even a heritage to Israel His servant, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. Who remembered us in our low estate, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, And has rescued us from our adversaries, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; Who gives food to all flesh, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. Give thanks to the God of heaven, For His lovingkindness is everlasting."

What words are repeated 26 times in one Psalm?

 

It doesn't repeat at all in the manner in which repition is practiced in modern worship. Add to that fact that ancient Hebrew music was arhythmic like its poetry, and you have nothing to support your view.

 

Actually, it teaches us that six-winged, grotesquely multi-eyed creatures may speak a line without ceasing. In Heaven, anyway. On earth, not only would these creatures appear monstrous, but their manner would be monstrous and oppressive.

But . . .

That's if one reads that passage without a shred of understanding. It has nothing to do with Christian worship or music.

 

lol Dr Bob

You can post on my ad hominem thread

 

And the pot calls the kettle black.

 

Since the question was ignored, I'll cut to the chase . . .
Aaron: Why aren't you totally thrilled with some of the music?

jcjordan: Because, it I felt it was inappropriate for Christian gatherings.

Conclusion: Everyone—EVERYONE—draws the line somewhere, and they base that line on how they read the Scriptures.

 

I was away for a couple of days. My answer to your question was that I do feel that SOME of the music from that group of musicians was a little weak lyrically. It had nothing to do with style. But, as I pointed out before, I don't consider it (Passion) a "new calvinist" conference if Lou Gigglio and Beth Moore are speakers. I think it was labeled such just because John Piper happened to be one of the speakers.

 

Well, at least I can ignore your comments as being spiritually discerning with a comment like that on one of the most biblical pastors in our generation.

 

Peter Masters... one of the most Biblical pastors in our generation... :laugh:

Gifted pastor, sure... competent from the pulpit, absolutely... "Most Biblical"... what in the world does that mean?

As to the charge of Dr. Bob lacking "discernment"... There is little to no spiritual discernment needed in this thread. Not when we are once again wading through the quicksand of baseless subjective opinion that typifies a debate over music styles/preferences.

 

It means his message and methodology in the ministry are in keeping with biblical standards. But yes, I agree he's also "gifted" and "competent from the pulpit". I just didn't want to be guilty of flattery.