Baptist World Alliance

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Jimmy C, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
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    I think that the SBC should stick with the BWA, unfortunately Nashville sees it differently, and is removing their support of the BWA. The following is a bit of an artilce that appeared in the Baptist Standard (http://www.baptiststandard.com) This article expresses very well the reason the BWA would like the SBC to stay, and its not just for the money. Billy Kim has asked the SBC to sit down with them to reconcile thier differences, regrettably the SBC seems to have no inclination to reconcile. What do you SBCers out their think?

    BWA leaders insist Baptists need to "stick together"
    By Ken Camp and Marv Knox

    Baptist Standard

    DALLAS–Southern Baptist Convention withdrawal from the Baptist World Alliance would mean not only the loss of one-fourth of the international organization's income, but also the loss of a unified Baptist witness worldwide, BWA officials told Texas Baptists.


    "We belong together because we belong to Christ," BWA General Secretary Denton Lotz repeated at every opportunity during his Texas tour.


    Lotz and BWA President Billy Kim spoke to a dinner at Park Cities Baptist Church in Dallas, a luncheon at Dallas Baptist University, a news conference and staff meeting at the Baptist General Convention of Texas office building and a rally at First Baptist Church of Plano Jan. 26-27.


    Infighting among Baptists in the United States creates "confusion" among Third World Christians who do not understand denominational politics and distinctions between various Baptist groups in the United States, Kim said.


    "We need to stick together," he said.


    Kim and Lotz traveled with the 60-member Korean Children's Choir, representing Kim's Far East Broadcasting Company, who performed at each Texas Baptist venue and at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth. Dorothy Patterson, wife of seminary president Paige Patterson, hosted the seminary reception. Paige Patterson is the author of the SBC study committee proposal to cut ties with the BWA.


    Kim told reporters he had talked with Patterson on the phone, but they merely exchanged pleasantries. However, Kim said he invited Patterson to preach at his church, near Seoul, South Korea, and he hoped at that time to have a conversation of "more substance" regarding strained relations between Southern Baptist leaders and the BWA.


    "He is a wonderful friend, but we see things a little differently," he said.


    Kim acknowledged his hope that the sweet voices and smiling faces of the children would "soften the hearts" of Southern Baptist leaders and cause them to reconsider the proposed separation from BWA. He pointed out that his aides told him Mrs. Patterson "shed tears when the choir sang 'God Bless America.'"


    Even so, Kim and Lotz said they were unaware of any positive response from members of the SBC study committee to an invitation they and the vice presidents of the BWA issued. BWA leaders urged the SBC Executive Committee to table the committee motion to withdraw funding and membership from the worldwide fellowship, and they offered to meet with SBC leaders "anytime, anywhere to discuss reconciliation."
     
  2. Charlesga

    Charlesga
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    I agree, Jimmy C. I can't help but think a motivating force behind this move is the fact that the CBF was accepted as a member of the BWA. Politics is the motive. Kim, the president of the BWA, is a pastor in Korea. Many of Korea's Baptist churches are just as or more conservative than churches here, so I don't buy the liberal/conservative arguement.

    Charles
     
  3. dianetavegia

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    As a lifelong SBC church member, I would NEVER want my church affiliated with the CBF in any way, shape or form.

    I salute our leaders for this decision.

    Diane
     
  4. Charlesga

    Charlesga
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    Diane,

    I respect your decision. I'm a lifelong member of SBC churches (moved a couple of times), and I do like my current church, but I disagree with many of the steps that have been taken and the attitude of many in the SBC. Likewise, there are some in the CBF that I disagree with. However, I see that the CBF allows for cooperation between churches despite differences in biblical interpretation. I see the SBC moving away from acceptance as brothers and sisters more toward towing the party line. This is just the way I see it, and am disturbed by it. Both SBC, CBF, BWA, etc. etc. people will be in heaven someday and all this bickering will be realized as a waste of precious time, IMHO.

    I'm not trying to start an arguement, just wanted you to see where I am coming from.

    Charles
     
  5. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
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    I am not a CBF person either, but I dont think that the CBF and SBC both contributing to the BWA causes them to be affiliates of each other in any way. It meerly shows both to be concerned about reaching the world for Christ. In fact I would have been encouraged to have the CBF and SBC folks having a forum together in a non threatening environment.

    As Charles noted the Korean Baptists are probably more conservative than our SBC, the same can probably be said for the Africans, Chinese and Japanese.

    I hate to see the SBC loose thier voice, and influence among this group of Baptists
     
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    As an SBCer, I am thrilled that they have pulled out. I have been wanting this for about 7 years now. The BWA is not a means of furthering missions. It is another liberal organization with a social gospel.

    Further, when truth is denied, no unity exists. The BWA assumes unity at the expense of truth. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Ever since they accepted the CBF, it proved they have no tolerance for truth, only bigger numbers.

    I honestly hope with the loss of SBC money, that the BWA is crippled severely. The SBC missionaries have to work against the lost and the BWA.
     
  7. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
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    Thank you for your contribution to the discussion DD, you have brought your usual insight and enlightenment to the issue
     
  8. Precepts

    Precepts
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    Yeah, like the nurse that took off running and dropped Mephibosheth. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Ben W

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    I am a member of the Seventh Day Baptist Church and resultingly am by proxy a member of the Baptist World Alliance.

    For all people that take shots at the BWA, do you have any idea of how many people are actually comming to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the BWA? Tens of thousands and more so.

    I am not at all happy to see my church tarred as "Liberal" or myself personally being that the BWA are literally all the people that belong to the churches represented by it.

    I am not going to be sucked into taking shots at the SBC either though, remember that a large portion of the people that are in leadership of the BWA are in fact faithfull members of the SBC and are certainley not any of the things that they are sledged with.

    As it happens SBC churches and associations are signing up to support the BWA voluntaraly and suggest that the supposed loss of financial support will not be the political power lever that some hope it will be. All it will result in is less people hearing the gospel.

    Maybe the SBC is at the crossroads of more than just the BWA membership. They have done well to gain many from IFB circles yet are they going to far in that direction? Are the Moderates being pushed to choices? How about the Pentecostals in the SBC, what is their future in a more conservative SBC? Will Cessationism be an issue?

    Maybe it is not only the SBC that face these questions, but the rest of us too.

    The BWA will lose people as the SBC withdraws, yet they gained several groups last year. will more join in now, I think that God will bless the BWA with many new groups that want to work together in spreading the Gospel. I hope that those who give the BWA leadership and guidance from the SBC will stay on and help us to grow. The BWA has a future in Evangalising the Gospel. and our prayer needs to be directed to that with the words from God, "Well done good and faithfull servant". Invest that Talent into Evangalism and not politcal fighting.
     
  10. go2church

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    I my mind the move shows a lack of concern for the other baptist churches and people around the world. The SBC is becoming increasingly self-interested rather then kingdom-interested. They do missions only on their terms and have become increasingly hostile to those that don't think EXACTLY like they do, even in other cultures and countries. The BWA isn't going to die off and I think will be stronger then before because of this. This "curse" will end up as a tremendous blessing for them.
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I find it interesting that the BWA wasn't too concerned about what Southern Baptists thought until we told them we were pulling out and taking our money with us. This has been discussed once before and I will provide a link soon explaining all the reasons I am glad to be separating from this liberal organization.

    BTW, Ben,

    If individual, autonomous, Southern Baptist churches want to support the liberal organization, they are certainly free to do so. And, if God is in it, then God, inn his soveriegnty, will carry it on to completion and the Gospel will not suffer loss. However, I suspect that God is not in it and that it will hopefully soon shrivel up and die on the vine.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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  13. Joseph_Botwinick

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  14. Ben W

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    Joseph, yes I was most certainley aware that the autonomity of Baptist Churches allows them to support whoever they wish. Hopefully that is the same in every funding request for Baptist Churches be it for a college or mission or whatever.

    The BWA will never shrivel up, God will supply all our needs, simply because the BWA exists to do what he said and preach the Gospel to all the nations. If they did shrivel up and die, considerably less people would hear the gospel and many more people would die of starvation and other ills of society. For all of the negative sleges against the BWA, they do a massive amount of good things that help many people both Spiritually and Physically.
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    The BWA is "ecumenical" in its insistence on being one in action and outreach WITHOUT being one in doctrine!

    This is the problem many of us non-SBC'ers have seen with the convention - the admixture of truth and error within the body, schools, missionaries, etc.

    The CBF forming their own group and now joining the BWA shows the THEOLOGICAL BANKRUPTCY of the BWA and the need for godly Baptists to withdraw.

    Just an "outsider" evaluation.
     
  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Some thoughts from an outside observer:

    There is no such thing as "a unified Baptist witness worldwide".
    If so, this is not only sufficient reason for the SBC to be in the BWA, but also for every group that claims a regenerated church membership.
    While Third-World Baptists may not grasp the peculiar intricacies of the "denominational politics and distinctions between various Baptist groups in the United States", it should be clearly noted that they often have their OWN "denominational politics and distinctions". So I'm sure they understand the concept. It is quite rare to find Baptists anywhere with much history that have a perfect record in this. And, BTW, there are more Baptist bodies in the US that are not in the BWA than are in it; why isn't he courting them as well?

    Concerning world evangelization, I've never had the impression that was one of the main goals of the Baptist World Alliance. And I doubt if the SBC will stop sending missionaries and evangelizing the world just because they withdraw from the BWA. They don't have to be a member of the BWA to choose to coordinate and cooperate with any Baptist denomination they choose. I noticed online yesterday an article about the Missouri Baptist Convention partnering with the two main Baptist bodies in Romania.
     

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