Baptized Into Christ & His Body

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by adisciplinedlearner, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
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    Repentant believers are baptized into Jesus Christ, into His death, burial, and resurrection, and into His one body (Rom. 6:3-6; I Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:26-29; Col. 2:11-13). Is this water baptism, Spirit baptism, or both?
     
  2. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    This is water baptism - period! Spirit baptism is not individual but institutional, it is not progressive and ongoing but historical and completed (Acts 11:15-16) and after its completion there is but "one baptism" now for the Christian, it is not the baptism to be administered unto the end of the world (Mt. 28:19-20) as that is water baptism.

    The immediate context and overall context of I Cor. 12:13 will not support Spirit baptism but only water baptism and if some one wants to challenge me on that statement be my guest.
     
  3. dan p

    dan p
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    I do not think so ??

    Hi adisciplelearner , and this is a good question also as too what BAPTIZO means .

    I will begin with Rom 6:3 and 4 , and will use a different translation . the glory of the FATHER

    Rom 6:3 , Or, are you IGNORANT , that as many as were BAPTIZO/PLACED into Christ Jesus were PLACED into His death ?

    verse 4 , Therefore , we were BURIED ( into His death v3 on the cross Gal 2:20 ) together with Him through this PLACING into the death , in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the FATHER , so also should we REGULATE our lives in NEWNESS of life .

    #1 , Water has NEVER made anyone walk in the newness of life ?

    #2 , This is talking about Christ death on the Cross as Gal 2:20 reveals .

    #3 , Not all Greek words , Baptizo , mean WATER , as Matt3:11 , that shows WATER , HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE BAPTISM and they do not all mean wet Water .

    #4 , Our English word " baptize " is a Transliteration of the Greek verb BAPTIZO and the " baptism " from the Greek nouns BAPTISMA and BAPTISMOS . They are not the meanings of these words .

    The basic meaning behind the Greek words is from PLACING or PUTTING something INTO something else so to change its condition or relationship from its previous conition and from this definition comes the means of " to dip , immerse , submerge ".

    The prepostion EIS , meaning to " into " , is used 5 times with BAPTIZO , ( Rom 6:3 , 2 times ,v4 ; 1Cor 12:13 ; Gal 3:27 )

    This PLACING INTO Christ , His death , and the Body of Christ , is by the Holy Spirit Himself .

    Water can not perform this function !!

    There is no WATER at all in the 5 verses just mentioned . Also , this work of the Holy Spirit did NOT take place at Pentecost .

    The Baptism on the Day of Pentecost was the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ ( Matt 3:11 ; Luke 3:16 ; John 1:33 ).

    The time of this " PLACING INTO CHRIST is at the time of salvation , when Christ saves a sinner who believes in Him . I is a one time act of the Holy Spirit , never to be repeated . This truth is a part of the doctrine of being IDENTIFIED with Christ . These are ALL Holy Spirit PLACING INTO THE DODY OF CHRIST , and has NOTHING to do with WATER .
     
    #3 dan p, Jul 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2010
  4. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
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    I understand the New Testament to teach that we are born of water and of the Spirit at the time of our baptism. This does not mean that there is something magical about water or baptism; it only has to do with the timing of the baptism of the Spirit. We are placed into union with Christ and union with others who have been placed into union with Him at the time of our conversion-immersion.
     
  5. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    Your understanding is unbiblical and therefore wrong. God does not have two or more ways to save sinners. Very early in the scriptures God denied that the "heart" found in lost sinners is capable of fearing God or keeping His commandments

    Deut. 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

    and that God must first give a new heart in order that they might be able to perceive, understand, see and hear God.


    Deut. 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

    The children of Israel in the desert were the epitomy of rebellion against God and the epitomy of the lost condition. Indeed, most of the New Testament description of the lost condition is quoted verbatim from the Old Testament description of man. Man has not changed after the cross and has the same exact problem.

    Deuteronomy 5:29 declares they do not come into this world with a heart IN them to fear God or keep his commandments while Deuteronomy 29:4 demands such heart must be GIVEN to them BY God IN ORDER for them to perceive, hear, see or understand.

    Romans 10:10 does not describe the previous heart in Deuteronomy 5:29 or Deuteronomy 29:4 that cannot fear, or keep God's commanments or perceive, see or hear God but Romans 10:10 describes the kind of heart that Deuteronomy 29:3 says that God must give sinners in order to perceive, see, hear, understand God's word:


    Rom. 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


    Furthermore, this believing heart occurs PRIOR TO confession with the mouth and John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul nor any other preacher in the New Testament Scriptures would administer baptism without such a profession from the mouth.

    Yet, you are implying that this person is yet UNREGENERATED or without a regenerated heart prior to the act of baptism.

    Ephesians 4:18 describes the unregerate heart as having to do with the MENTAL state of DARKNESS in regard to the gospel but the man in Romans 10:8 the heart that PRECEDES profession with the mouth is not in that mental state of darkness in regard to the gospel:

    Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    There is already a CHANGED heart from its state described in Ephesians 4:18 to its state described in Romans 10:10. The heart in Ephesians 4:18 is incapable of believing in gospel as Deuteronomy 5:29 and 29:4 explicitly state but the heart in Romans 10:10 that PRECEDES confession with the mouth is capable of professing faith in the gospel as that is precisely the context beginning in Romans 10:8 and extending to 10:16.

    The change of heart must have occurred PRIOR to confession with the mouth which PRECEDES even the consideration of baptism as no baptismal administrator will baptize anyone WITHOUT a profession of faith.

    This is also proven by Ephesians 2:10 where "created in Christ Jesus" occurs PRIOR TO "good works" and it cannot be denied that in God's eyes baptism is a "good" work.
     
    #5 Dr. Walter, Jul 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2010

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