Be Fruitfull and Multiply

Because these are the families I have heard it from, from the now adult children, many many families, not one or two, but every large family I know of has been through this very thing. Because mom has more children then she is capable of tending too.

 

I've been bashed more then once on this thread because I have two children(medical reasons) and not a whole boat load.

 

*i* have not said that you are sinning if you don't have 10 or 12 children. personally i can't find any where that gives a # as to when a person's "quiver is full"....

the only thing i have said about *a few* people i know who have limited their family size were...in my opinion...very selfish reasons. i never said someone was sinning due to not having a large family.

no sopranett....i don't think anyone has said that. infertility is a very painful thing. and even more painful for those who are around people who are overly blessed with fertility. my cousin and her husband have been married for 18+ yrs, never have tried to prevent having children. yet, they only have one son who is 11 yrs old.

while it is possible to raise a small family or an only child to be unselfish...most parents who have only children or small family's *for selfish reasons* will not be interested in raising the children to be unselfish.

 

And yet, I have more than the average number of children and I know many families who have more children that I and I am telling you that this isn't always the case. This may be your experience and your reality in your area, but in the cases I know of this is not the norm!

 

TLB, what do you consider is a selfish reason for limiting the number of children one has?

 

just so we are clear as to why i am being asked....:thumbs:

1) you can't afford a house that you want (*not need) if you have another child

2) you can't afford name brand clothes for the children if you have another

3) you can't take < insert vacation here > if you have more children

4) you can't pay for ivy league colleges for all of the children you have if you have more

5) you can't go out to eat every meal if you have more children ( not to be confused with out and out not being able to afford food in general )

these are reasons i have been given....not only to not have more children but also to justify having abortions:tear:

 

Not really very selfish reasons, I think, maybe except for number one.
I would think of these reasons as being economic dictates.
Most parents would want more children if they can afford it.
Who is the parent who doesn't want the best education for his kids ? or doesn't want his kids to be dressed nicely and in style ?

Even Christ told His disciples to "sit down and count the costs".
I take this to apply to raising a family also.

I mean, take a look at my country, a devout Roman Catholic country and therefore absolutely anti-abortion.
Given the fact that most families are "economically challenged" (to be pc in the use of terms), when dad comes home from work, assuming he has a job, most often he goes to the corner store to drink with his friends, or at his friends' houses, then comes home to mom, and every night is Valentine's night.
Result ?
More kids and more mouths than they can feed.
And what happens to these kids ?
They stop school as soon as they're able to do the three R's to help mom and dad with livelihood.

I think childbearing should be a responsible thing, and one of the factors to be considered should be economic.

 

Your "stereotype" is just that. A "stereotype".

I don't "limit family size". I just don't go out of my way to do that which causes pregnancy. Although, it's not a concern now as it was some years ago.

You all crack me up the way you word things....:laugh:

 

I have no idea why you came to this conclusion. I only gave a logical rule of thumb.

If you cannot take care of your children yourself, you have too many. It's not that hard to understand.

 

Pinoy, while I don't disagree that one must factor in economics when deciding another child I find there is a different problem with your example above than the problem of poverty.

Why is the man at the bar drinking????

The problem here is not poverty but irresponsible use of the resources God gave the father.

I'm not what you call a "submissive" wife sometimes and this would be one of those times. If I caught my DH out spending money in a manner as to harm the well being of my children, he wouldn't live to tell about it much less come home to "Valentine's Day"!

If he has time to play and we need money he has time to work a second job (there have been times when my DH has worked 3) or he has time to stay home with the kids while I work a job.

This is what responsible parents do, regardless of the number of children they have.

 

Yes, I helped out alot. Raised myself and my sister, or if you ask her, she will say she raised me. Which she did when we were toddlers through about 6 years old. Then I took over. But having deadbeat parents is no reason to start a cycle of deadbeat parents. I know some large families have it together, are very loving and do a good job. Or a great job. So this is not a cut and dry statement.

 

You are correct. The same holds true for England. Worse yet the Muslims who come to Western Europe know this as well and it plays a part in radical Islamic world's plan to conquer Europe in response to the offense of the crusades from the middle ages.

The funny thing is the title of this thread caught my eye because I was watching the games show, "Family Feud" the other day. The contestants were asked to name seven of the Ten Commandments. One family responded, "Be fruitful and multiply." Sad....

 

As I have already said, it's not just my area, my grandmother was from michigan, and not everyone I've heard it from was from here. So it has nothing to do with my area.

 

Limiting number of children is selfish? Wanting to keep children fed, and clothed, and knowing you can not do it with more children is selfish? I don't think so.

 

1. we didn't then, nor do we now own a house. our house was tiny, and cold, and wet, no hot water(cold water frozen in the winter, had to save milk jugs), no bathroom. Yet, if we wanted soemthing more for our family, you would have called us selfish.

2. we couldn't afford no name clothes from wal mart, most of the time we couldn't even buy clothes from the dollar store, we bought used clothes, and the cheapest we could find. I remember when my son started transistioning into adult jeans, we searched and searched for good used jeans for him, and found one pair for $1. we had to spik a bill to buy him another pair from the store. But prehaps we were being selfish.

3. we have never had a vacation, ever, neither have either of our children.

4. neither of our children had the oppertunity to go to college because we couldn't pay for it. They did not qualify for enough grants to pay for it.

5. we never ate out when our children were young, my kids didn't eat resturant food until they were like 4 or 5, and that was a real treat at mcdonalds, but we had to hold it under $10. for 4 of us. It was another year or two before they had resturant food again, when my grandmother came to visit and wanted to eat out once.

So I guess we're pretty selfish.

 

I am just wondering but did you have to hide from the County to live there? Did they threaten you?

Around here, they will come in and force you to move into affordable housing or they threaten to sick CPS on you, kinda sad. They aren't nice about trying to coax some parents to move. Most jump at the chance. The affordable housing consists of fairly large apartments, nice ones with a playground and lots of green grass. We painted them. Rent is a certain percent of your income, so it is always affordable. Loose your job and no rent payment that month.

 

Well, I must not have worded it correctly, but that is exactly what I am saying.

Irresponsibility.

The reason he's out drinking with friends is because that's just about the only thing they can do in the city given the low wages they have. Liquor can be bought retail. That is, half a bottle, or a quarter. They pool in their resources and they are able to drink, not get drunk, but just drink, and socialize with each other.

It's a whole different culture than yours here, but bottom line is they have so many kids because given their social situation Valentine's is just about all they can do when they come home.

What happens ?

Inability to raise the kids properly, not to mention with the fear of the Lord. Because they were also raised improperly by their parents, since the parents have the same issue: too many kids, not enough resources.
It's what they saw, it's how they lived.

That said, I can see why you say the answer doesn't seem relevant, and I agree.
That said, I am bowing out for now and declaring this post a "senior moment of pinoybaptist".

 

We weren't hiding from anyone.
You mean goverment housing. No rent payment means you move out. And there were so few of them here then that there was a couple of years waiting list. And with no regular income (which farm work is, irregular, depending on the weather, or the season) we didn't even qualify. I lived there for a while when I was a kid, they are not nice places, they are more violent then when we lived in chicago. No play grounds, no where for kids to play outside, and they're in danger if they do play outside. They are full of drugs, sex, and as I said violence.