beginnings...

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by mark, Mar 29, 2003.

  1. mark

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    Hey folks.... Assuming Baptist succession back to the first century, (please just go with me on this) who is the first in the line (paulicans, montastists, ect.)? Can anyone put these all in order for me? Thanks
     
  2. tyndale1946

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    Here is an online booklet called The Baptist In All Ages by Elder J.S. Newman... He was a Primitive Baptist preacher... I hope you find what you are looking for and this helps... I had the outline posted once but can't seem to locate it... When I do I will post it again... Brother Glen The Primitive Baptist [​IMG]

    http://www.primitivebaptist.org/writers/newman_js/baptists/baptists.asp
     
  3. tyndale1946

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    A Brief Sketch of the Baptists by Century for Nineteen Centuries
    Elder Ariel West, of Texas, prepared the following brief sketch by century of the Baptists through nineteen centuries. - Taken from The Baptists in All Ages, by Elder J. S. Newman.
    FIRST CENTURY: There were churches in Asia Minor, Southern Europe and England. They were first called Christians at Antioch. Saul persecuted the churches. Nero and Trajan were emperors of the Roman Empire in this century. Small departures by some were made in the churches.

    SECOND CENTURY: Baptists in same countries as first century. Pliny, governor of Bithynia (see Hassell's Church History, page 360). Polycarp was pastor of the Church at Smyrna until his death by burning in about 166 A. D. (see Shackelford, page 54). More departures over a larger territory in this century. Marcus Aurelius Antoninus came to the throne of the Roman Empire.

    THIRD CENTURY: Churches in southern Europe, England, Wales, Asia Minor, and North Africa. Christian churches called Paterines, Novatians and Montanists. Diocletian became Emperor of Rome. Wholesale departures, and the above names of Christian churches given to them by those departing from the faith. (Hassell, p. 367, 377; Ray, p. 315; Robinson's Ecclesiastical Researches, p. 126.)

    FOURTH CENTURY: Churches in same countries as in preceding centuries. Christian churches called Donatists in parts of north Africa; also Puritans in Wales. Constantine the Great became emperor of Rome. Council of Nice held A. D. 325. First recorded infant baptism, 370 A. D. (Hassell, p. 386, 387, 389; Shackelford, p. 49; Orchard, p. 92, 93).

    FIFTH CENTURY: Those departing from the faith established and enforced popery in 416. A new name given to true Christian churches in some localities, to-wit, Cathari.

    SIXTH CENTURY: Catholics call Baptist or Christian churches Ana-Baptists for the first time (Hassell, p. 407-409).

    SEVENTH CENTURY: True Christian churches in Armenia. The Catholics call them Paulicians (Hassell, p. 417; Smith, 359-360).

    EIGHTH CENTURY: True Christian churches still called Ana-Baptists, Donatists. The Catholics originate the doctrine of transubstantiation in 780 A. D. In the first part of this century, Pope Stephen II instituted pouring as a legal ordinance for baptism in the Catholic church.

    NINTH CENTURY: Ana-Baptists in Bulgaria. In this century the Greek Catholics and the Roman Catholics became separate bodies.

    TENTH CENTURY: Baptists in Wales, Italy, and France, and called Paulicians and Ana-baptists in different countries (Smith, p. 359-360).

    ELEVENTH CENTURY: Baptists were in Italy and France under the name of Paulicians and Paterines (Smith, p. 358, 360, 363).

    TWELFTH CENTURY: Baptists were called Paterines, Henricians, Arnoldists and Petrobrussians (Hassell, p. 436, 438; Smith, 219).

    THIRTEENTH CENTURY: Baptists were found in Italy, France, and Germany, and were called Waldenses or Vaudois, Ana-baptists, and Albigenses (Smith, page 570 to 585).

    FOURTEENTH CENTURY: Baptist churches were in Germany, England, and Poland; called Lollards in England, Waldenses and Ana-baptists on the continent (Crosby, Vol. 2, page 46; Orchard's English Baptists, p. 118; Smith, page 251)).

    FIFTEENTH CENTURY: Baptist churches in England and Valleys of Piedmont. In this century John Huss, a reformer, was burned at the stake (1415), but he was not a Baptist. In this century Martin Luther was born (Nov. 10, 1433), but let it be understood that his reformation had no connection with the Baptists. In this century thousands of women and children of the Waldenses were put to death by persecution (Crosby, Vol. 1, p. 18).

    SIXTEENTH CENTURY: Baptists were found in France and Germany under the name of Waldenses. The Lutheran church came out of Rome as a distinct body in about 1552. The Episcopal church came out of Rome in 1534, and the Presbyterian in 1527.

    SEVENTEENTH CENTURY: Baptist Churches were called Waldenses, Baptist, and Ana-Baptist. The first Baptist church in America was organized at Newport, Rhode Island, in 1638 by Dr. John Clarke and eleven others.

    EIGHTEENTH CENTURY: New School Baptist movement was started in England by William Carey and Andrew Fuller. The Methodists became a distinct body from the Episcopal church in 1785.

    NINETEENTH CENTURY: The New School movement spread to America. Black Rock Address, and withdrawal by the Old School Baptists. Campbellites became a distinct sect in 1827.

    References: 1. Hassell: History of the Church of God from Creation to A. D. 1885, by Elders C. B. and Sylvester Hassell. 2. Smith: Smith & Cheetham's Dictionary of Christian Antiquities. 3. Shackelford: J. A. Shackelford's Historical Chart showing the Origin and History of the Baptists, c. 1891. 4. Crosby: Crosby's History of the English Baptists. 5. Orchard's History of the English Baptists... This is surely what you were looking for... I found it right after the previous post... The booklet by Elder J.S. Newman examines each one more in depth... Brother Glen The Primitive Baptist [​IMG]
     
  4. mark

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    Oh! EXCELLENT! Thank you brother Glen, This looks like a great outline.
     
  5. mark

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    bump
     
  6. Peter101

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    The outline by century offered above cannot be taken as proof that there is an unbroken line of Baptists back to the time of christ. About the most that can be said is that there is an unbroken line of christians, loosely labeled as such, back to the time of christ. But then we already know that, don't we?
     
  7. Bible Student

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    Charles Spurgeon believed it to be true:

    "And now it seems to me, at this day, when any say to us, 'You as a denomination, what great names cna you mention? What fathers can you speak of?' We may reply, 'More than any other under heaven, for we are the old apostolic Church that have never bowed to the yoke of princes yet; we, known amoung men, in all ages, by various names, such as Donatists, Novatians, Paulicians, Petrobrussians, Cathari, Arnoldists, Hussites, Waldeneses, Lollards, and Anabaptist, have always contended for the purity of the Church, and her distinctness and separation from human government. Our fathers were nen inured to hardships, and unused to ease. They present to us, their children, and unbroken line which comes legitimately from the apostles, not through the filth of Rome, not by the manipulations of prelates, but by the Divine life, the Spirit's anointing, the fellowship of the Son in suffering and of the Father in truth."

    CH Spurgeon, Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 7, 1861, p. 225
     
  8. mark

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    Firstly, AMEN to Bible Student's quote of Spurgeon.

    Secondly, Peter 101, My first sentence was "Assuming Baptist succession back to the first century, (please just go with me on this) " . I know some of you will never be convinced and don't bother trying to convince us successionists that we don't go back. ;)
     
  9. Frogman

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    Spurgeon is (this quote as a matter of fact) was the one that made me to begin to look seriously at the idea of succession.

    Prior I was raised as a Protestant, when coming to Grider Memorial Baptist, this teaching offended me as it does many others now, in study of the Word of God and the historical beliefs of Baptists I must say that I would be dishonest if I claimed I did not believe it.

    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
  10. mark

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    Hey Frogman what took you so long to jump into the fray?
     
  11. Frogman

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    Sorry. I was being filleted on another thread :D

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  12. Peter101

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    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;such as Donatists, Novatians, Paulicians, Petrobrussians, Cathari, Arnoldists, Hussites, Waldeneses, Lollards&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    I think if you looked into the doctrines of the above groups, you would not recognize most of them as baptists.
     
  13. rsr

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    Well, Peter, I agree with you, but I am tired of contending endlesssly. The historical record is, at best, thin. I consider myself a Protestant, without apology, and have to stick to the historical record, which clearly shows English Baptists arising from the the Separatist movement with acknowledgements toward the Anabaptists.

    If you look at the Montanists, for example, you will find folks more like Pentecostals or WoF than Baptists. Tertullian was half right; he opposed hierarchy, but I cannot think modern Baptists, by and large, would endorse the later Montanist thought.
     
  14. mark

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    Peter101 wrote "&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;such as Donatists, Novatians, Paulicians, Petrobrussians, Cathari, Arnoldists, Hussites, Waldeneses, Lollards&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; I think if you looked into the doctrines of the above groups, you would not recognize most of them as baptists.

    Most of the reports on these groups were written by the people who slaughtered them. Not a real reliable source.
    I know many disregard "The Trail of Blood", but there really is a trail of blood. There are two catagory of Christian groups, those whose blood was shed and those who shed that blood. Guess which catagory these groups are. My guess if if I lived in there time and I had the choice of fellowship with these groups or the Roman church, I would have lined up with the Donatists, Novatians, Paulicians, Petrobrussians, Cathari, Arnoldists, Hussites, Waldeneses, Lollards.
     
  15. Frogman

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    I agree with you Mark.

    For what that is worth.

    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
  16. Frogman

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    Mark,
    I found the following link through www.pbministries.org it is:

    http://www.pbministries.org/History/John%20T.%20Christian/vol1/history_of_the_baptist_vol1.htm

    It is the work of John Christian.

    Ch. 3 speaks of the Montanists, I have not read it, so I don't know how much detail. I have not found a source online yet of their writings as to confessions of faith etc.

    Ch. 2 deals with the beginnings of baptismal regeneration and the baptism of infants.

    Hope this helps, if I can help in any way just let me know.

    I will post anything I can find on the Montanists, hopefully I can find some primary source(s).

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
  17. Frogman

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  18. rsr

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    The Montanists are a special problem for successionists; their primary defender is Tertullian (who upholds the priesthood of the believer but preaches baptismal regeneration) and they're proto-charismatics.
     
  19. Frogman

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    Thanks rsr,

    Do you know where I can find a source for a confession of faith?

    Bro.Dallas Eaton
     
  20. rsr

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    Sorry, Dallas. I don't know of any.

    This is another case of a group leaving behind very little of its own writings. There are some writings of their opponents (such as Eusebius), of course, which must be taken with a grain of salt.

    Tertullian, so far as I know, is probably the most accurate source (at least for his time) because he defended the Montanists and later joined them.

    I have found what I think is a pretty balanced, but brief, site:

    TERTULLIAN AND MONTANISM
     

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