Regarding Systematic Determinist’ traditions of trying to force fit pre-selection election, it can clearly be seen that the scripture makes a clear “true” promise to ALL which is the exact opposite of the teaching of the “Doctrine of Forget Hope/Determinism” in that it shows all are offered grace on one real condition, “through faith”. (Eph 2:9) That condition (faith) is not and cannot be excluded from one being “chosen”. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Eph 2:8) Those who preach the doctrines of Calvinist/Determinist proclaim that you must be pre-elected - irresistibly, are unable to respond to God’s calling – totally, unless pre-determined to do so. Yet, when preaching the Gospel they generally exclude and avoid telling the masses what they believe to be true (They fail to be transparent in their preaching of Gospel as they believe it which to be forthcoming and honest would have to include telling the lost that they may have no hope because of not being pre-selected for election.) Like it or not, Determinists, there is a condition to being saved by grace and that condition is FAITH - which must come from one’s own heart and everyone has that ability to respond. This is a vital part of Gospel message and any attempt to cover it up or exclude it when telling the promises of God to ALL His creatures is what I would consider a deceitful practice by the Determinists. A practice which is rooted in and conditioned upon holding to the doctrines of Calvinism in which all parts (the TULIP) necessarily hinge on Determinism in any logical sense if it were to support their man-made philosophical rambling. They attempt to force fit interpretations of scriptures throughout to fit determinism and call it “The Gospel”, the “Doctrines of Grace” while excluding that grace must come through faith which is a vital of the true Gospel which should include Doctrines of Grace through Faith. But the non-determinist has nothing of the sort in which they motivated to hold back. This is an example of the message of grace through faith that I (A non-determinist) proclaim, the true Gospel promise to all God’s creatures: (Rom 10:9) If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Note: You is used 4 times in this verse. You'll be surprised by how much "you" there is in a book that supposedly says that we do nothing. The deterministic view must force fit change the “you/your” faith which is spoken of throughout the Bible into Him/His grace while excluding what is clearly mandated to be from your/their faith from your/their own heart. If the Determinist doesn’t “like” the idea that they or you have to respond from your/their own heart in faith I would suggest they take it to the Lord in prayer!!! The Determinist focus is on grace alone and that is simply not Biblical. I am truly concerned about a preference to leave the condition of one’s own free response of faith out of the salvific message all-together, whether it is for yourself or others. It is as if those of the Determinist persuasion hate the fact that they would have to confess in faith from their own heart of their own free will and rather love to profess the message of darkness: “This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.” (1Jn 1:5) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (Joh 1:9) I ask honestly: Did the determinist have no choice? Did faith have to be determined upon them??? If so, I find this sad ,sad, sad; where is the love of the truth in that nonsensical determinist’ view which is clearly contrary to Romans 10:9 and 10 and the whole purpose of God in creating the world in love and revealing this Light to all in it what He did for us? For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Rom 1:17-20) There is true judgment in this matter: He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. (Deu 32:4) You must believe with your own heart to be justified: (Rom 10:10) For a person believes with his heart and is justified, and a person declares with his mouth and is saved. Let’s be honest here Determinist! Whether you like it or not it is God's Doctrine of Grace 'through Faith" and that is a condition that should not be taken lightly or left out of the Gospel! Don’t take out the condition of faith from your doctrine, throw out that deterministic garb about grace which makes you ashamed to even tell others that God loves and died for them for the purpose to bring a genuine offer of grace to all in the world He created. Be honest to yourself, because the condition of true faith from one’s own heart is the only way one is justified and freely receives grace from God. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Rom 3:22-24) You don’t know that you were specially pre-selected, you can’t claim faith that didn’t come from your own heart, don’t be deceived even the devils believe there is One God yet they tremble, they too exclude and try to avoid the purposes and meanings of God’s Love which come through a promise made in the Son at the foundation of creation to all God’s creatures. One needs “faith” in love of the Truth that “God is Love” which only comes from knowing Him and loving Him in truth from your own heart. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (Gal 5:5-6) Friends, I could go on all day and night telling what the scripture says and it doesn’t ever exclude anyone from hope except those who refuse to believe, or have faith from within their own hearts after hearing the truth. Again, God's judgment in the matter is not ever made against those who could not respond as He is judges in truth. (Deut 32:4) And I would never come to the point that I could not be transparently honest or be deterred away from proclaiming that all have hope in the promise of God’s grace through faith because of some foolish doctrine that tries to force fit determinism into God's plan of salvation. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Joh 3:15-17) Now, faith from one’s own heart is NOT a condition to be left out of the Gospel “Truth” which tells about God’s promise of “Love” for ALL those in the world He created! That's how God works! Believe it or Not! Like it or Not!