Being Delivered.

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Sherrie, Dec 12, 2002.

  1. Sherrie

    Sherrie
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    I have been running into a lot of people lately who say "I got delivered last night". "God delivered me from smoking cigerettees". Or "The Holy Spirit was jumping in me, and I got this strong urge, and ran out of the Church and down the street. Later that night, I got delivered." This saying for them does not mean they got saved. It is a seperate statement from being saved.

    Now the "Funk and Wagnalls says:

    Delivered: To hand over; surrender, transfere possesion of. 2. to carry and distribute. 3. To utter. 4. To free from restraint, evil, danger, etc; set free. 5. redeem, recue, save.

    Ok I don't get it. When we confess our sins and Jesus dies on the cross for us, aren't we being delivered then. Haven't we been redeemed then?

    I do not know how to argue this with these people probably because I do not understand it. I was just really put off by it. Can you help me understand this, or how to debate and show this is wrong.

    Sherrie

    [ December 12, 2002, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Sherrie ]
     
  2. rsr

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    Hard to know how to advise you, Sherrie. What they probably mean is they've been "delivered" from the power of some specific disease, addiction, habit or emotion.

    I won't discount this; God certainly can work miracles.

    The problem is where it shades off into some "deliverance" ministries that teach, for example, that there is a specific demon that makes you like alcohol or cheat on your spouse and kick the dog. What to do? Cast out that demon and deliver you. Easier, certainly, than dealing with the root of sin. And you're not even to blame for the horrible things you did before you were delivered.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Lord deliver us from "deliverance" ministries. WE are never at fall; it is the demon of lying, the spirit of adultery, it is the lack of faith to be healed, etc etc ad nauseum.

    I find that brand of charismania particularly offensive. :rolleyes:
     
  4. rsr

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    Have we agreed again? Something must be done ... :eek:

    [ December 13, 2002, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  5. Sherrie

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    ok....so what have I learned? I am just as confused as I was to begin with, rsr. Work with me here. Dr. Bob, help me out a little.

    Sherrie

    [ December 13, 2002, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Sherrie ]
     
  6. Helen

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    If you will allow me here, there may be something different than the charismaniac side of things going on here. When we are saved, when we are born again, we still have a lot of flesh habits that have to be dealt with. I know with me, that if God had chosen to remove all that was wrong with me at the first, there would have been nothing left for him to work with later!

    And so I have found that the changes are constant, and once in awhile something I was particularly battling has finally been defeated through the grace of God. And although I don't run around shouting that I have been delivered from such and such, I have to admit that the feeling of being free from something that had been a continuing problem is always a wonderful experience.

    Our transformation into the image of Christ is not an instantaneous affair! With some it may not take enormous amounts of work, but with me it sure has! But I can look back and see wonderful changes -- most are slow and hardly noticeable until I look back, but every once in awhile there is a dramatic shift in the way I look at something, or the way I behave in a given situation, that really is a testimony to me as much as anyone else of the power and grace of God.

    I'm grateful for those times.
     
  7. rsr

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    Sherrie, I hesitate to send anyone to one of these "deliverance" sites. My take is that preachers and radio people (I can give you the name if you want) are teaching that our problems are solely the fault of demons, not of our own sinful nature and practices. To get rid of the problem -- alcoholism, wife abuse, etc. -- it is only necessary to "cast out" the demon that's causing the problem. As C.S. Lewis said, the Devil gets a lot more credit than he deserves.

    I will give you a link to a "deliverance" site that promises the proper incantantions:

    http://groups.msn.com/riveroflifedeliveranceministries/prayerstodestroytheworksofthedevil2.msnw

    Be afraid; be very afraid ...
     
  8. Helen

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    about 'deliverance' ministries and sites, however, I definitely agree with rsr!
     
  9. rsr

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    Helen, I understand what you're saying. God sometimes works in miraculous, instantaneous ways. But the "deliverance" folks shift all the blame to the Devil and promise you can be "delivered" if you say the right words. And perhaps send in money.

    Ever heard an exorcism by radio? That's what's happening.
     
  10. rsr

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    Oops. Cross-post, Helen.
     
  11. Helen

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    gotcha, rsr, by agreeing with you two minutes before you posted your note to me.....

    LOVE doing that!

    :D :D :D
     
  12. Sherrie

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    I really need to pray about this...because I really need to address this issue with some people I know, and I do not want to be illiterate about it, and I also want to present Christ in me and my debate.

    And Helen I do agree with you. I don't think we get everything at first. I think everything comes in time, and as we grow.

    I think tho this deliverence thing is different. It almost seems like taking one sin at a time to the cross, rather than all of them at once. Not so sure thats a good thing.

    But rsr...you got me scared. Remember I am alone. I have no honey to run to. I could never watch that exorcist movie either.

    Sherrie
     
  13. rsr

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    I don't mean to scare you, Sherrie. There are "deliverers" that prey upon people with real problems, promising to "deliver" them from some specific sin or problem.

    Like you, I know that the Christian life is not instantaneous; sometimes, the best thing is to deal with one sin at a time. But this is not what "deliverance" is about.

    I can't advise you on how to handle this; I only want you to know what the possibilities are.
     
  14. Sherrie

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    yeah I will read that web page from you in the day time. lol

    I wonder....How do these things even get started? And people buy into it.

    Sometimes I think it is better to not know about all this junk. Then you don't get caught up in it.

    Thanks rsr and Helen.
    Sherrie
     
  15. rsr

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    Sherrie, I was kicked out of the Optimists when they found out about the real me. (Just kidding. Well, maybe.)

    I tend to look on the dark side of things; I find if I expect the worst and it doesn't happen, I'm pleasantly surprised. I don't necessarily recommend this attitude, but it works for me. Sometimes.

    Besides, Christian Cynic already has the franchise ...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Lorelei

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    AMEN!

    These people are seeking experiences rather than reality. They care more about the experience of being delivered than the freedom that comes with it.

    The kind of deliverance that Helen speaks of takes time. It's easier if God just zaps you with it. Of course we know that God doesn't work that way. We also know that they are missing the gentle peace and comfort that can only come from growing with our Lord day to day. I will trade the peace that passes all understanding anyday for an experience that is gone the next morning.

    ~Lorelei
     
  17. blackbird

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    Sister Sherrie,
    My wife is the facilitator of our ongoing Beth Moore Bible Studies series--at the beginning of each series we have a "Sign Up" list that goes up on a wall in the hall--we'll get like 20-25 ladies to sign up and actually come to the first nites lessons---then I tell my wife--"Watch now! As you go along--they'll start droppin' out like flies! Can't take the committment! And the draw to conviction!"

    Anyway, there is a darlin' lady there our age--smoked for upteen years--she gets involved in the program(Beth Moore) and as she goes along--the Holy Spirit drives her to conviction about smokin'! Now, I review some of the lessons--absolutely nothin' in there about being delivered from the demon of smokin'--dippin'--chewin'--whatever---but here is the point--

    It is the Holy Spirits job to deliver us to Jesus! We may ask in the prayer--"Deliver us from evil"--and rightly so--but in order for the Holy Spirit to deliver us FROM evil---He has to deliver us TO somewhere else--and that somewhere else is the Lord Jesus!

    But its all in the mind--and dying daily to self--its about makin' up your mind and becoming dead to the things of the world. A person who is dead to the world--you know what??--he can't do nothin' with it!! Cause why!! Cause he's a dead man--and dead men can't do nothin'--can't say nothin'--can't see nothin'--

    Gettin' back to that lady smokin'--it was her mind that was made up that "I ain't smokin' no more--ooohhhhhh, God's temple is me and I can't have the temple smellin' like smoke!!! Jesus ain't gettin' no second hand smoke!" But it was a matter of which mind is more powerful--the fleshly mind or Jesus' mind! Just a matter of which you love more---smokin' or livin' with Jesus! Drinkin' or living with Jesus! Cussin' or living with Jesus! Its a daily death--and the Bible teaches me--that dyin' is livin'!!! Amen???

    Your buddy always,
    Blackbird
     
  18. hrhema

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    I personally know people who were addicted to smoking who prayed and asked God to remove their desire for tobacco and he answered them. No one laid hands on them or whatever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people believing God can deliver them from sin. It is when they run to so called Christian gurus who are supposed to have the power to deliver them. The only one who can deliver is Jesus.

    Please don't think the Charismatics and Pentecostals are the only groups guilty of these deliverance ministries. I have seen notices posted about certain Baptist evangelists saying they have a deliverance ministry.
     

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