Benefits/Blessing of CCM

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, May 7, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    I am an outspoken critic of CCM. Would appreciate YOUR list of what you would classify as "benefits" of "blessings" from your use of CCM in ministry or personal life.

    NOT for debate or folks "shooting" at CCM. Just the positive side. And examples if possible to illustrate your point.

    Thanks. Looking forward to your posts. [​IMG]
     
  2. wizofoz

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    What's the point? No matter who says what, it will not change the minds of the ones who are steadfastly against it.
    It's like the athiest asking for conclusive proof that God exists. No matter what you tell him, he won't accept it.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    I am ALWAYS learning and growing and stretching in my faith and practice. People talk about "blessing" and I'm just trying to nail an ambiguous word to a tree.

    Don't expect anyone to agree with my musical tastes and those probably will not change. But I recognize that some CCM will probably outlive the present fad and I will be ministering to people who are "blessed" by it.

    So, again, looking for real, tangible, specifics from anyone (except Wiz of course! :rolleyes: )
     
  4. Travelsong

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    I am edified by, and enjoy all music which expresses reverence, awe, gratitude, love, and humility in a spirit of worship equally.

    As far as music which simply explores the human experience, or is instrumental, I enjoy it as much as anyone enjoys anything recreationally. I don't think there is a moral difference between Bob Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man" and taking a walk on the beach, or sucking down a bowl of death by chocolate.
     
  5. Mike McK

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    Bob, I have a lot of problems with CCM but there is some good stuff out there.

    For me, I find the little I do listen to uplifting, convicting and encouraging.

    A couple of examples for you:

    HYMN


    IN THIS LAND OF THE WALKING WOUNDED
    IN THIS DESERT OF COUNTLESS SORROWS
    I WILL CLING TO HIS HAND TODAY AND
    FEAR NOT FOR TOMORROW

    IN MY HEART I HAVE MADE THIS PROMISE
    WITH THIS SONG I DECLARE MY CHOICE
    I WILL WALK WHERE THE SHEPHERD
    LEADS AND HEED NO OTHER VOICE

    IN THE CHILL OF MY DARKEST HOUR
    I AM SAVED FROM MY DEEP DESPAIR
    FOR THE FATHER WHO LOVES HIS
    CHILDREN HEARS MY TRUSTING PRAYER

    IN MY SOUL THERE IS ONE LIGHT SHINING
    FROM THE FLAME OF MY TRUE BELIEF
    AND ITS EMBERS CANNOT BE QUENCHED
    OR ROBBED BY ANY THIEF

    IN THE END WE ARE NOT FORGOTTEN
    AND OUR JOURNEY IS NOT IN VAIN
    FOR THE MASTER WHO BOUGHT US HERE
    WILL LEAD US HOME LEAD US HOME AGAIN


    BREATH OF GOD


    O BREATH OF GOD
    COME IN AND DWELL
    PLEASE MAKE MY ACHING HEART
    YOUR HOME AND USE ME WELL
    FOR YOU CREATED ME
    AND NAMED ME AS YOUR OWN
    TO KNOW THE WONDER OF YOUR LOVE
    AND MAKE IT KNOWN

    O BREATH OF GOD
    TEACH ME YOUR WAYS
    THAT I MIGHT SERVE YOU IN THESE
    PRECIOUS, FLEETING DAYS
    NOW I AM SURE OF THIS
    IF I'VE LEARNED NOTHING ELSE
    UNTIL I LIVE FOR YOU
    I DO NOT LIVE MYSELF

    FATHER, FATHER
    LIFT ME ON YOUR WINGS
    SHOW ME WHY THE ANGELS SING

    O BREATH OF GOD
    I'M TIRED AND COLD
    AND ALL THE DREAMS I'VE CHASED
    HAVE LEFT ME FEELING OLD
    BUT YOU'VE BEEN WAITING HERE
    NOW I UNDERSTAND
    PLEASE LET ME FALL INTO YOUR
    LOVING, NAIL-SCARRED HANDS


    Fire

    Fire, holy flame
    Walk with me, walk with me
    Fire, holy flame
    Take my heart And burn away this darkness in Your fire

    I did not know that I was blind until I looked into Your eyes
    I did not know that I was lost until You found me
    I did not know I was a fool until I heard the words You speak
    They are spirit, they are life, they are
    Fire, holy flame
    Walk with me, walk with me
    Fire, holy flame
    Take my hand And I will follow you into Your fire

    I did not know my savage thirst until You lead me to Your well
    I did not know I lived in chains until You freed me
    I did not know I was afraid until You gave Your perfect love
    Love that casts out all my fears
    Fire, holy flame
    Walk with me, walk with me
    Fire, holy flame
    Take my soul That I may dwell forever in Your fire

    And when I feel the flame within this burning white hot light of truth
    My body trembles 'til I feel my flesh will leave my bones
    My soul is filled with Mourning such as I have never known
    A piercing aching sorrow, heavy as a grave stone
    And I cry out, I am ruined, oh, I am undone
    Then like Ezekiel You bring burning coals to touch my tongue
    Cleansing me from my iniquity
    Under the shadow of Your cross you shelter me
    You shelter me in Your fire Holy flame
    Walk with me, walk with me
    Oh, fire, holy flame
    Take my hand, take my heart, take my soul
    Fire, holy flame
    Walk with me, take my hand and walk with me I will follow You...


    Could It Be

    I Corinthians 1:19-25

    In the ebb and flow of living
    As we wander through the years
    We're told to listen to a voice
    We can't here with our ears
    They say to live by something
    That you can't see with your eyes
    Is there really any purpose
    To this foolish exercise?

    Chorus
    Could it be You make Your presence known
    So often by Your absence?
    Could it be that questions tell us more
    Than answers ever do?
    Could it be that You would really rather die
    Than live without us?
    Could it be the only answer that means anything
    Is You?

    In our words and in our silence
    In our pride and in our shame
    To the genius and the scholar
    To the foolish and insane
    To the ones who care to seek You
    To the ones who never will
    You are the only answer even still

    Chorus

    It's a question you can't answer
    An answer you cannot express
    That the gentle Man of Sorrow
    Is the source of happiness
    You'll never solve the mystery
    Of this magnetic man
    For you must believe to understand

    Chorus
    Could it be the only answer that means anything
    Is You?


    That's What Faith Must Be

    Galatians 3 & Romans 3:22

    Chorus
    To hear with my heart
    To see with my soul
    To be guided by a hand I cannot hold
    To trust in a way that I cannot see
    That's what faith must be

    When the universe fell from His fingertips
    He decided He wanted some fellowship
    But the man and the woman would not submit
    So He made a better way
    When the moment was right He sent His own Son
    And He opened the way so that everyone
    Could have hope and believe that when time was done
    He'd be able to make us one

    Chorus

    Now I understand that there is a key
    It's Jesus in me, a reality
    That God is in Christ and that Christ's in me
    That with faith I see what is unseen

    Chorus
    That's what faith must be


    Distressing Disguise

    II Corinthians 8:9

    He is in the pain, He is in the need
    He is in the poor, we are told to feed
    Though He was rich, for us He became poor
    How could He give so much, what was it for?

    In His distressing disguise
    He waits for us to surmise
    That we rob our brothers by all that we own
    And that's not the way He has shown

    Every time a faithful servant serves
    A brother that's in need
    What happens at that moment is a miracle indeed
    As they look to one another in an instant it is clear
    Only Jesus is visible for they've both disappeared

    He is in the hand that reaches out to give
    He is in the touch that causes men to live
    So speak with your life now as well as your tongue
    Shelter the homeless, take care of the young

    In His distressing disguise
    He hopes that we'll realize
    That when we take care of the poorest of them
    We've really done it to Him


    The Love of God
    Romans 8:18-39, Ephesians 3:14-21


    There's a wideness in God's mercy
    I cannot find in my own
    And He keeps His fire burning
    To melt this heart of stone
    Keeps me aching with a yearning
    Keeps me glad to have been caught
    In the reckless raging fury
    That they call the love of God

    Now I've seen no band of angels
    But I've heard the soldiers' songs
    Love hangs over them like a banner
    Love within them leads them on
    To the battle on the journey
    And it's never gonna stop
    Ever widening their mercies
    And the fury of His love

    Oh the love of God
    And oh, the love of God
    The love of God

    Joy and sorrow are this ocean
    And in their every ebb and flow
    Now the Lord a door has opened
    That all Hell could never close
    Here I'm tested and made worthy
    Tossed about but lifted up
    In the reckless raging fury
    That they call the love of God


    The Just Shall Live

    Psalm 16:9-11, Proverbs 24:11-12, Isaiah 10:1-4
    Matthew 5:5, Matthew 16:18, John 6:35-40
    Romans 1:16-17, Hebrews 2:9-11


    I know the just shall live
    I know the just shall live
    I know the just shall live
    By faith

    'Cause You won't let Your Holy One
    No, You won't let Your Holy One
    You won't let Your Holy One
    See corruption in the grave

    Because He put His trust in You
    Because He put His trust in You
    Because He put His trust in You
    Many shall be saved

    And I know that You will raise them up
    I know that You will raise them up
    I know that You will raise them up
    On the last day

    For the Lord looks down on the sons of men
    To hear the cries of the innocent
    And the guilty will not stand
    For the day of reckoning soon will come
    And the whole world will see justice done
    By the Lord's almighty hand

    So I'm telling you the just shall live
    I know the just shall live
    I know the just shall live
    By faith

    And You will raise them up
    I know that You will raise them up
    That You will raise them up
    On the last day

    And the prayers stand where the fighters fell
    And time testifies with the tale that it tells
    That the meek shall inherit the earth
    And the Church advances on the gates of hell
    And she clings to a light that will not be quelled
    By the kingdoms of this world

    I'm telling you the just shall live
    I know the just shall live
    I know the just shall live
    By faith

    And You will raise them up
    I know that You will raise them up
    You will raise them up
    On the last day
     
  6. D28guy

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    I'm not sure what you mean by the "present fad".

    Contemporary Christian music started in the late 60's when converted hippies got saved and didnt think much of the idea that they had to get rid of their guitars now, and start playing "Bringing in the Sheaves" on piano or organ. :eek:

    They kept doing just what they were doing before, only they started writing about Jesus and God, instead of sex and drugs. So, Its been going on consistently for over 30 years now.

    I enjoy christian music because it lifts up, and praises, Jesus Christ and God. I'll admit though that some of the styles now I cant listen to. (Hard core "heavy metal" or Rap noise, etc)

    Mike
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    The CCM songs pre-1980 are usually of a greatly different quality than the past two decades.

    1960-1980 reflected more of "folk" style music and based much more on real scriptural depth (as contrasted to "feeling".

    Consider:
    Majesty
    As the Deer
    El Shaddai
    He is Lord
    His Name is Wonderful
    Praise the Name of Jesus
    I Love you Lord
    Thou Art Worthy
    New 23rd
    Seek Ye First
    I Will Call Upon the Lord
    Glorify Thy Name
    Great is the Lord
    My Tribute

    + most Gaither stuff

    Am I way off here? I see a watershed difference in CCM. (Okay, know you will give a list of "good" songs since 1980 but hope you see my point)
     
  8. Mike McK

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    No doubt. There's been a steady erosion over the years and CCM seems to have finally imploded around 1993 or 1994.

    Personally, I think the mid-late eighties was the best era for CCM, both artistically and philosophically.

    I don't know, Bob. The eighties had artists who were very "deep", scripturally but the style of music was different and people were expressing ideas that they might not have felt free to in the 70's.

    I don't think you're off at all. I do think that the collapse of CCM came much later than you do, though.

    There are a lot of good songs from the eighties but if you start around '88 or so, you see the number of good songs steadily declining.

    When I think about where CCM was at when I listened to it and where it is now, it's just sad.
     
  9. D28guy

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    One of the differences...speaking negativly...now, verses at the beginning, is that at 1st everything was driven by what was in the artists heart. Nothing more. There was no "industry" to it. They made their recordings, and sold copies at concerts.

    Now, here lately, many of the christian labels have been purchased by secular recording companies, who are driven by.....$$$$$$$.

    So, we have to sell product, which means that we go into bookstores and find giant, life size, promos for Steven Curtis Chapman, or Amy Grant, or whomever. That would have been unthinkable early on. Probably some of the lyrical change might be driven by the same forces. Gotta sink to the lowest common denominator, in order to appeal to the widest group of people.

    Which also leads to a concern for "show biz". My wife and I went to see "Point of Grace" and "4 Him" a few years ago and it was awful. All show biz. They put on a biiiiig production.

    The good thing, though, is the "Praise and Worship" movement. A lot of people were getting tired of the show biz and the "middle of the road" lyrics, and wanted to just get back to what its all about...Praising our God and lifting up Jesus.

    Anymore, I purchase more Praise and Worship then CCM.

    So, there is hope! [​IMG]

    Blessings,

    Mike
     
  10. Kiffin

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    Man, I thought I was the only one thinking that! :eek: It seems that the CCM music quality is more competive with secular music today but to me the song writing is inferior. And is it only me or do they all seem to sound alike today? Like factory manufactured music clones? There seemed to be a more creative spirit in CCM in the 80's and more diversity in sound and a sincerity. Maybe I'm getting old at age 38 (soon to be 39!) but CCM today has a vanilla flavored, manufactured sound. Just my thoughts! [​IMG]
     
  11. WW2'er

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    Well folks, getting back to the original purpose for this thread....I have received tremendous blessings from CCM. Many CCM songs have challenged my thinking and made me examine my heart and attitudes. I like overtly spiritual songs, but I also like songs that stand for spiritual things but aren't blatant or make you think before understanding the meaning. Charlie Peacock is a big favorite of mine for his songwriting.

    I also like CCM because it can apply to my different moods. When I'm happy and energetic, I can groove along with a pop or rock song. When I'm sad or depressed, I can listen to a mellow or overtly spiritual song to remind me to look up to Him who sustains me. Whatever mood, I can find a style of CCM that "fits" with a good clean message, if not outright worship. God has also used it to speak a message to me at just the right time. Taking CCM with me on some international missions trips has brought me to tears it touched me so...PRAISE GOD!!

    I haven't used CCM for much direct "ministry" purposes, but it is nice that if I wanted to share my music with unsaved friends or acquaintences, they would see that I am current in style, but with a WHOLE different meaning and purpose. I think it shows that Christians are not people with outdated, old fashioned, washed out, ideas and methods. CCM shows the unsaved that Christians have a relevant message in a relevant medium.

    I was raised with the standard old hymns, and I have been and am still blessed by some of them. However, I have been blessed 100X more by CCM that I listen to at home, work and during travel.

    I just remember to not put God in a box and say that He can only work in certain ways. God's ways are not man's....ANY mans! He will use WHATEVER he wants to bless or minister or do His will.

    God Bless! [​IMG]
    WW2'er
     
  12. Eric B

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    I can see right away that several of those songs are after 1980.
    And I agree that it is just not as good as it once was. It seems now it is purely about copying what is poular, rather than expressing truth using a style that happens to be contemporary.

    Also, notice how many who usually battle against the anti-rock crowd are admitting the flaws of CCM today. That shows that not all those who do not take a traditional-only position are trying to justify everything out there, or have no sense of musical or spiritual quality.
     
  13. ScottEmerson

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    I would completely disagree that the newer songs lack Scriptural backing. I would ask that people look up people like Chris Tomlin, Matt Redman, Delirious?, and David Crowder Band. The lyrics that go into their work are just amazing and are uplifting, to me at least...

    For example:

    All of you is more than enough for
    All of me, for every thirst and
    Every need, you satisfy me
    With your love, and all I have in You
    Is more than enough

    You're my sacrifice of greatest price
    Still more awesome than I know
    You're my coming King, You are everything
    Still more awesome than I know

    More than all I want
    More than all I can see
    You are more than enough to me

    (Chris Tomlin and Louie Giglio

    And here is another one:

    Sing to the King who is coming to reign
    Glory to Jesus the Lamb that was slain
    Life and salvation His empire shall bring
    Joy to the nation when Jesus is King

    So come let us sing a song
    A song saying we belong to Jesus
    And he is all we need
    Lift up a heart of praise
    Sing now with voices raised to Jesus
    Sing to the King

    (Billy Foote)


    One new thing of note that Chris Tomlin said to us in a group of praise and worship leaders was quite interesting. He noted that one of the most pressing needs in worship is to connect the modern church with our worship roots. He led us in a most beautiful arrangement of "All Hail the Power of Jesus' Name" that used the text and tune of the hymn with similar chords on the guitar. The interlude between the verses was new:

    Lift up the crown
    Raise up the praises
    Place on the brow
    Of the King of the Ages

    ---------


    On another note, concerning CCM, a good friend of mine is into the underground hard-core Christian music scene. (Much harder than I could handle.) He has told me various stories of hard-core people who came to know Christ because of the testimony of these groups, who actually "preach" near the end of their sets. (These are the groups that I would say are "real" about their desire to seek and serve those who are lost.)

    As far as my own ministry, I've seen CCM (praise and worship more specifically) create an environment of worship for my youth that I do not see during our Sunday morning, more traditional service. That's an incredible blessing right there.

    My guess is that those who work with youth would offer a similar testimony.
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    I was only using the year 1980 in a very loose way. I've seen some good songs from 83-84 that I would be comfortable with. There will be some overlap in the dates.

    Sorry for the confusion :rolleyes:
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    Scott, if these are typical of the 2003 CCM songs, you prove my point. Look at the words and then pick up a hymnal and look at "This is My Father's World" or "A Mighty Fortress is our God" and then see that no comparison between the two groups could even be made.

    And many (not all, but many) of the CCM "love songs" could be sung about meeting Buddha or falling in love with a girlfriend as much as it relates to Jesus.

    Think I'll sing it for her before I go to bed tonight!
     
  16. Pete

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    Very well written :D

    Words: Charles S. Horne, circa 1910. :D

    http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/s/i/singking.htm :D

    Pete
     
  17. Jude

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    Here's a link to a community that sings 'contemporary' music that is really beautiful...

    http://www.taize.fr/
     
  18. Pete

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    Oopsie :eek:

    Apologies Dr Bob and everyone, I must have missed that line the first time I looked at thread.

    Pete
     
  19. JonathanDT

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    Titus, that's ok. We all knew it wouldn't take long for someone to start dissing CCM on this thread. If not you then someone else.

    Bob, what do you get out of your music? Encouragement? Inspiration? Maybe a little education? Worship? Challenges? A sense of awe for God? A sense of peace? Joy? Don't you realize we get the exact same things out of our music?

    As I've said before, I would put the songs of Skillet and Supertones against any others I have heard, including the hymns. They speak to me like the hymns never have. Maybe it's because they speak my language, maybe it's because they talk about things I experience.


    Skillet - Kill Me, Heal me

    Words and music by John L. Cooper.

    Break my bones and reset me piece by piece.
    You break me, pick up the cross cause it's killing time.
    Hey, hey, hey, how can I scream when the pain is such a release.
    I get the courage to pick up the nails cause it's killing time.

    Kill me, heal me.
    Kill me, heal me on and on.
    Kill me, heal me.
    Kill me, heal me on and on.

    Breathing your love, you're ferocious, you're in my lungs.
    Resusitate, craving your electricity.
    Hey, hey, hey, feet to my pain, you give wings to my fear.
    Your peace inhabits my blood. Your love is thick.

    I can't live without it. I can't live without it.
    I can't live without it. I can't live without it.

    I figured I'd post a song that was a stark contrast from the P&W stuff that has already been posted. This is my favorite Skillet song right now. It's one of Skillet's more simplistic songs. But this is probably the best example I've ever heard of the lyrics, vocals, and the music all combining into one message.
     
  20. ScottEmerson

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    I think a fair comparison can be made. The majority of our hymns are songs that are sung ABOUT God, Christ, His love, and so on. The two songs that you mentioned are about God. They are praise songs, but they are not being sung TO him, per se. Many of the praise and worship songs of today are songs that are sung TO Him, such as "Enough" as I posted earlier. I think that this generation longs to connect with God in a different way than the previous generation - a result of the new post-modern world that generation X and beyond have constructed. That is why praise and worship is different. The words have been written to tell Christ something vertically, while so many of our hymns are horizontal in orientation.

    Think I'll sing it for her before I go to bed tonight! [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I would wonder how Teresa would fulfill,

    "You're my sacrifice of greatest price
    Still more awesome than I know
    You're my coming King, You are everything
    Still more awesome than I know"

    You conveniently left that out. There is a stark contrast between songs that are designed to praise God - such as "Enough," where you know exactly that it is designed for a praiser to God - and those that are designed for a more mainstream audience.

    And I would hope that as much as you love Teresa, you wouldn't be able to say that she is more than enough, because we both know that only Jesus Christ can complete us completely!
     

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