Bible Codes - and prophecy

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by BobRyan, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    I have had such a picnic exposing the blunders flaws and errors of those who believe in evolutoinism instead of God's Word, and those who embrace the errors of Roman Catholicism instead of scripture and those that cling to a denial of the 1000 years of Rev 20 instead of accepting the Bible for what it says -- it is time to give the group a chance to take me to task.

    After all - that is only fair.

    Within the last two weeks the History channel produced a documentary called "Bible Code: Predicting Armageddon"

    http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=43819

    On that show they talk about a paper published in the Statical Science Journal

    The Journal sumbittd the paper to a very high level of peer reviewers because it wanted to get out of having to admit that the math foundation was legit.

    #1. What are your "feelings" about that?

    #2. For those with the necessary math background to evaluate it - what are your "thoughts" and can you show the math to back them up?

    (In the History channel program they claim that the Bible code predicts a large earthquake in California in 2010 and the end of the world in 2012)

    I am not sure that this fits the math - as all the reviewers on the show said it can not be used to predict something.

    McKay claims to debunk the 1994 paper after working on it for 5 years (http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/StatSci/)

    Dr. Witzum claims to have unraveled McKay's challenge immediately..

    http://www.torahcodes.co.il/emanuel/eman_hb.htm

    ------------------------------------------

    Then we had the "Da Vince Code" Where it is "claimed" that the drawing of "John the beloved" in Da Vince's "Last Supper" is in fact Mary Magdalene, Christ's earthly spouse.

    http://www.danbrown.com/

    That was amazingly popular - though it has been debunked pretty well.

    http://www.nrbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=C6466

    -------------------------------------------

    Now a number of churches (including my own here in Raleigh) are doing a series called "Prophecy Code: Bible Secrets Unlocked"
    http://www.prophecycode.org/

    Question for the group - does this help or confusing the issue?

    Is it wise or acceptable to use public interest on "codes" related to the Bible as a "take off" for our own discussions about legitimate Bible prophecy topics or is that a bad mix of lesser subjects with serious ones?

    What say you?

    (Here is your chance to have a go at an area where my church is exposed to criticism.
    :eek: )

    Enjoy!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Looks like you don't have any takers yet Bob.

    I am not qualified to tackle this subject, except to say that I think it's a lot of junk!!

    We have enough on our plates just figuring out what the actual Word says, never mind bible codes and such!!

    I do think the Da Vince code is a Crock. But good luck on this one, it will be interesting to see what your church believes about such things.

    :D

    Tam
     
  3. donnA

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    I read the book, and saw right off it was junk(took about 5 minutes to get to the bad stuff that convinced me), I've done a little study, and still think it is junk. I even wrote the author to biblically refue what he said about God and the bible. Of course I probably was not the only one and never got an answer, not that I expected to, I just wanted him to know the biblical truths. I felt someone had to be responsable for telling this athiest the truth of scripture and Jesus.
     
  4. donnA

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    I wouldn't think it ever a good idea ofr a church to use secular athiestic material for study, unless your studying the untruths as untriths and why they are not true to keep your members from falling for it all.
     
  5. music4Him

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    Bob you mentioned in one of the questions about the math to back it up? Also I notice that what I have see on TV when people work the code it has to do with counting so many letters ect to get the info..is this right?
    Ya'll please bare with me because I'm not a wiz when it comes to physic stuff....but I do remember a old "I Love Lucy" episode to where she was using horoscopes and numeroligy(sp?). So trying to work a code (to me) would be like numeroligy(sp?).

    Theres a BB member who might know more about this because in some of the post I have read about her testimony.
     
  6. billwald

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    "I have had such a picnic exposing the blunders flaws and errors of those who believe in evolutoinism instead of God's Word,"

    Please define "believe in." Do you differentiate between and/or have different standards of proof (evidence) for physical and metaphysical phenomena?

    By using "evolutoinism" are you differentiating between the science of evolution and the philosophy of evolution as a history?

    Do you differentiate between evolution and Social Darwinism?

    Do you differentiate between the problems of "first cause," "abiogenics," and evolution?

    What does your leading paragraph have to do with the "Bible code" problem?
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    My concern would be that passersby, seeing a sign or advertisement saying your church is teaching on 'the codes' would assume the church was not scriptural and testimonies would be ruined! Better to not try to attract the confused by using confusing words.

    http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html
     
  8. neal4christ

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    Bob, you are not letting pride get to you here, are you? And instead of helping to expose "blunders, flaws, and errors," you helped drive me to the Church. So thank-you. [​IMG]
     
  9. Doubting Thomas

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    Bob, you are not letting pride get to you here, are you? And instead of helping to expose "blunders, flaws, and errors," you helped drive me to the Church. So thank-you. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Though I'm not planning on "swimming the Tiber", I feel the Catholics that used to post here did a much better job exposing the inconsistencies and errors of Protestantism than the other way around. (Perhaps that's why they were banned. :eek: )
     
  10. Link

    Link
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    I died some research on the Torah codes before the best-seller came out. I never read the best seller. my wife has an Indonesian copy, and I just don't have the patience to read a traslation.

    There are a lot of interesting codes in the Torah. The original study indicated that it was statistically improbable that these codes would be there. The first I read about the codes, back in the early or mid-90's was that a statistician found the Hebrew for 'holocost' ecoded at an interval of 40 in one of the curses for disobedience passages. 40 is associated with judgment.

    There are codes in other passages. One in the Isaiah 53 passage is rather long and some say reads like a Psalm. I forget the first part, but the last part is 'Y'shua is His name' or 'Jesus is His name.'

    The guy who wrote the Bible Code book that was so popular 'cheated' by skipping letters and was debunked by the scholar he quoted. I didn't read it, but I remember talking to a friend of mine with a Hebrew translation masters degree who was researching the codes before the book came out. The thing that bothered him about the book was the crazy notion that aliens wrote the Bible. Instead of making the connection that if there are supernatural codes in the bible, that the actual text of the Bible is inspired, he jumps to these bizaar theories.

    Anyway, the most important 'codes' in the Torah, I believe, are the ones at the interval of 1.

    Btw, before rejecting Torah codes, think about this. The name of God is not mentioned in the book of Esther. But before the Torah codes became popular, many scholars realized that the name is 'encoded' in different passages. In the 119th psalm, stanzas start with the letter of the Psalm. The name of Babylon is 'encoded' in some books-- Jeremiah, I think, with an extra letter between each letter of the word Babylon if I remember correctly. Translators apparently see this code as referring to Babylon. So there was a lot of good precedent for 'coding' in the Bible before this came out.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    Just to clarify. The point is not that my church is teaching something on the "Bible code" book or on "The Da Vinci Code" - my point is that by using the title "Prophecy Code: Bible Secrets Unlocked" a casual reader "might link this" to the other popular "codes" topics floating around, when it really has nothing to do with those ideas.

    Certainly the title is a "take off" on those other popular codes - to get a point of recognition. But in this case - it is just straightforward Bible study of Daniel and Revelation.

    So the question is - is the not-so-subtle link taking it too far?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. BobRyan

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    I believe in dumping evolutionism's junk science and sticking with objective science, independant thought and rational thinking. I also believe the Bible is really true.

    The part about "Bible code problem" is simply that the title being used in this March 2005 series "Prophecy Code: Bible Secrets Unlocked" will likely "sound like" it has something to do with one of the current popular "codes" (Like Bible Code - or Da Vinci Code).

    My question is to ask if this is a bit too close, or is it simply an ok way to peak interest?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    The Bible Codes are to Bible Truth
    as gambling is to earning a living.

    Which reminds me of a joke ;)

    A Catholic man was hit by a car and was
    comotose on the road probably dying.
    In fact, the EMT noticing the Catholic symbol
    worn on the neck asked: "anybody here
    a Catholic priest? This man needs last rites.
    A man with a Jewish hat on said "maybe I can
    help?" The Jewish fellow said "I used to live next
    door to a Catholic Church and I know what they
    say to each other".
    Not even a Catholic present, the EMT
    told the Jew to see what he could do.
    The Jew began to speak: "G-35, B-14, O-63 ... " [​IMG]

    Sometimes gambling is used to bring folks to
    church, but that doesn't mean we should do it.
     
  14. music4Him

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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------
    The first I read about the codes, back in the early or mid-90's was that a statistician found the Hebrew for 'holocost' ecoded at an interval of 40 in one of the curses for disobedience passages. 40 is associated with judgment.
    --------------------------------------------------

    This here is what I ment by numeroligy (using math to foretell events?) ....isn't this wrong?
     
  15. Archeryaddict

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    Numeroligy Is sorcery.
     
  16. music4Him

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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------
    Now a number of churches (including my own here in Raleigh) are doing a series called "Prophecy Code: Bible Secrets Unlocked"
    http://www.prophecycode.org/

    Question for the group - does this help or confusing the issue?

    Is it wise or acceptable to use public interest on "codes" related to the Bible as a "take off" for our own discussions about legitimate Bible prophecy topics or is that a bad mix of lesser subjects with serious ones?

    What say you?

    (Here is your chance to have a go at an area where my church is exposed to criticism.)

    --------------------------------------------------

    Bob, I could be wrong, but are you asking if would be alright to do a series and impliment SDA teaching to back it up?
     
  17. BobRyan

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    No. I am simply asking about the principle in general of promoting an evangelistic series on Daniel and Revelation by using terms that are likely to be connected (at least at some level) with popular interest/recognition of the "Bible Code" or "The Davinci Code".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. billwald

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    "I believe in dumping evolutionism's junk science and sticking with objective science, independant thought and rational thinking. I also believe the Bible is really true."

    "I believe" is a metaphysical statement.
     
  19. BobRyan

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    So is belief in evolutionism.
     
  20. Marcia

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    I do not think it is a good idea to advertise like this as it is misleading. It might give people the idea that the churches doing this endorse some kind of hidden code in the Bible. I don't like the term "Bible secrets" either, as it indicates hidden meanings in the Bible. This makes it look like God's word is some kind of esoteric book with secret, hidden meanings.
     

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