Bible Translators of the Received Text required

Translating Romans 1:5

The Authorised Version translates the phrase in Romans 1.5 eis hupakoeen pisteohs (spelling it phonetically) as "for obedience to the faith". In this context, the word 'eis' indicates more than the word 'en' (spelt phonetically as 'een' with a long 'e'). So I would look to translate 'en' as 'in' in English, and 'eis' as 'into' in English. Therefore my translation of this phrase would be "into the obedience of faith".

In Romans 1.5, I would face another issue. How to translate 'Xapin' ('Charin' or 'karin' spelling it phonetically for those who do not know greek, which has been traditionally translated as 'grace'). This word, that we translate as 'grace', requires the average Bible-believing Christian to dig into a commentary or at least a concordance to understand.

I do not have the perfect answer for translating this word. Does anybody have some suggestions?

I have come up with one suggestion - 'undeserved favor'. But does this remove too much ambiguity?

I want to see an accurate faithful translation of the Word of God that ordinary young people today can read without having to dive into a commentary. It concerns me greatly that people, even those who have sat under the preaching of the Word of God for decades, have to rely upon another man's opinion of what the Word of God actually says, than know it for themselves.

My goal is to see Christians step into a level of maturity where we know and do the Word of God, where we are not tossed about by theories of man, but can know and live according to the truth.

So, back to the word translated as 'grace'. Please let me know how you guys think about translating the word 'Xapis' (phonetically 'Charis' or 'karis' from the greek) as 'undeserved favor?

Next issue in this verse - can we translate the word 'apostoleen' (phonetically)? other than simply using the base word 'apostolos' and turning it into a gerund (verbal noun) which it is, hence 'apostleship' which is the generally accepted translation. How does a young person understand this word today, if they have never been in church?

I personally believe that we are meant to preach on the streets, and not try to get people into church to hear the Gospel. So that is what I do. I preach on the streets, and to small groups, and one-on-one. But generally it is outdoors. These guys I'm preaching to have no idea about long words like 'apostleship'.

A long word like 'apostleship' needs a bible dictionary to explain it.

Can we find a word, or group of words, to translate this word 'apostoleen' (phonetically spelt) into current US spoken English?

To apply the principles which I concur with from Thread 3, we need to be accurate. So we need to recognise that the word 'apostoleen (phonetically spelt because I do not know how to type in greek) derives from the word 'apostolos'.

So, do we just translate the word 'apostolos' as 'apostle'? Surely this is not a translation, but merely transliterating a greek word without conveying meaning - so Christians end up with a huge diversity of understandings about this word, ranging from protestant ideas right the way through to those who advocate apostolic hierarchies.

I do not want to inject my personal theology into a Bible translation, because I want to give people the freedom to read the Word of God accurately and think for themselves.

But this word 'apostolos' - what does it actually mean?
I think (but I'm open to correction on this, as with any idea I have - because my mind is no way infallible, and I'm open like anyone else to deception or dodgy ideas) that this word can be identified with the following array of words - 'messenger, sent-one (from 'apostelo' meaning 'I send), emissary, ambassador'.

The way I would prefer to translate 'apostolos' is in such a way as to leave the modern reader to work stuff out for himself. Therefore I would go for 'sent one' or 'sent-one'.

OK, so there is a possible translation of 'apostolos'. But how do you then configure a gerund (verbal noun) out of apostolos to get you to 'apostoleen (spelt phonetically)? What a challenge!

Also, I would like to go for the simplest words possible, showing where possible in English the actual greek root of a word.

Where I cannot manage to get a completely word-for-word accuracy, but I am trying to convey accurate meaning, I want to use the same process the 1611 translators did - they used italics when they found that they needed to add a word or words into a sentence to make it read in 17th century English - but they also wanted the reader to know exactly what they had added. and what was original - in this way, the reader can see the addition, recognise it, and accept that the addition is not in the original autographa.

OK - so here goes - I would probably translate 'apostoleen' (spelt phonetically) as 'sending'. Now that may not be easy to understand - but it is not my duty to explain the intentions or provide commentary for the Divine Author. All I want to do is translate accurately and leave the reader to work out what it means.

The other thing I would look at is the very long sentence structure, in which Romans 1:1-7 is one long sentence. In current US spoken English, I would want to see if it is possible to translate accurately, and maybe put in a full stop somewhere, without in any way altering the meaning or in any way seeking to impose onto the Word of God a 21st century interpretation.

My stand point is that the Word of God is supernatural, its author is our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Therefore any translation must not inhibit a range of meanings where it is possible that more than one meaning can come out of a section of the text.

If a full stop came at the end of Romans 1:4, and Romans 1:5 began as a new sentence "By him . . ." instead of "By whom . . .", the question is whether that alters the meaning in any way? I do not see that it does (but please contradict me and explain why, if you do).

How much emphasis do you think we ought to place on the original punctuation? In addition to studying Biblical Languages in my Theology degree and subsequently, I have also studied Law and made my living from designing trusts and legal documents. In the field of English Law, documents generally do not have punctuation so as to avoid a specific interpretation. This requires documents to be drafted in a precise manner so as to ensure that meaning is conveyed without the requiremnt of punctuation.

What do you think about the comma after 'apostoleen' (spelt phonetically)? Is it necessary?

I do not believe that we should be going for 'dynamic equivalence' or what some call a 'free translation' - precisely because I believe that the Word of God is supernatural and authored by God himself - it is no ordinary book ,adn cannot be treated like Shakespeare's plays. or any other book that has ever been written or will ever be written. The whole of the Word of God is the Word of God - I do not believe that elements are and some are not - I believe all of it is.

With regard to 'pisteohs' (spelt phonetically), there is no definite article in front of it. Therefore I would translate it as 'to/of faith' rather than 'to/of the faith' or 'to/of Faith' or 'to/of the Faith'.

The word 'en' means 'in. It is translated in the Authorised Version as 'among', and I believe that was a faithful rendition at the time. However I believe that current US spoken English is 'in'.

The word 'pasi' means 'all'.

The words 'tois ethneesin' (spelt phonetically with a long 'e'in the second syllable of 'ethneesin') include the definite article 'tois' meaning 'the'. Often where the definite article in Biblical greek precedes a word, the correct English principle would be to give the word that the definite article is attached to, a capital letter instead of or in addition to the definite article. Hence 'ho theos' (spelt phonetically) is translated as 'God' and not 'the God'.

So, a possible translation of 'tois ethneesin' (spelt phonetically) is either 'the Nations' or 'Nations'.

The next phrase 'huper tou onomatos autou' (spelt phonetically) is tranlated literally 'above (or 'on account of') the name of him'. Again, the principle in Biblical greek of putting the definite article ('tou') before the word it is attached to ('onomatos') means that it could be translated as 'the Name'. So, if we were going to translate the phrase 'tou onomatos autou' as 'the Name of him', can we therefore take that to 'his Name'? Why? - because in current US spoken English we never say 'the name of him ' or 'the Name of him', but we might say, 'his Name' or 'his name'. In this particular context, it is arguable whether you would translate 'name' with a capital latter - perhaps it might be a little pedantic to always put a capital letter on the first letter of a noun preceded by the definite article.

The final issue in this verse, is something I struggle with a little. I appreciate thread 1 - that perhaps it reduces the dignity of the Word of God to shorten words. I want to hold that thought, fully appreciate it - and also balance that thought against the desire to communicate directly into the lives of totally unevangelised young people, but to do so in an accurate manner that is fully faithful to the Received Text.

So the whole verse of Romans 1.5 would read either -

A) By him we have received grace and apostleship, into obedience to faith in all the nations on account of his name

or -

B) By him we have received undeserved favor and sending, into obedience to faith in all the nations on account of his name.

or -

C) By Him we've received undeserved favor and sending into obedience to faith in all the Nations on account of his Name.

Of the above 3, I personally prefer option C below, but I would like to hear what others have to say.

 

Thanks!

I will aim to keep posts shorter.

The Byzantine Textform by Robinson sounds very interesting. Thanks Ed and John for mentioning this.

[email protected]

Regards,

Nigel

 

Dear Ed,

Thanks for this.

I've looked up the web page but it doesn't give any way to download. The one I am particularly interested in is Robinson's work on the Byzantine text. I would be interested to see a text that is derived exclusively from the Byzantine stream.

Kind regards,

Nigel

 

Dear Rob,

I understand that Robinson's text is derived exclusively from the Byzantine stream. Is that correct?

In Christ Jesus,

Nigel

 

Dear Rob,

Thanks for this information.

Kind regards,

Nigel

 

Help still required!

Dear friends,

Is there anyone who would like to assist me, given that so far over 70% of those polled believe there should be an accurate and faithful translation of the Received Text into current spoken English.

Please email me if you are willing to help in any of the following ways -
1) read what has already been translated and give feedback
2) see how what has been translated flows in current spoken English
3) appraise and evaluate work done so far
4) translate Biblical Hebrew
5) translate Biblical Greek

Kind regards,

[email protected]

Nigel

 

Translating words

Hi guys

Here are just a few words that are an interesting challenge to translate:

metanoia (Repentance) - what do you think about
'a turn and change of heart and thinking'

metanoio (Repent) - what do you think about
'turn and change your heart and your thinking

metamorfo (Transfigure as in Transfigured) - what do you think about
'change form'

baptizo (baptize) - what do you think about
'plunge'

I'd welcome some feedback.

By the way, thank you, Rob, for your comments about the Robinson Textform. I'm proposing to stick with the Received Text for 2 reasons
1) personally, I believe it is the inerrant Word of God
2) it is a key benchmark of the Protestant Reformation

Thanks,

Nigel Dixon

 

What is a current word for 'Repentance'???

Dear John,

Thanks for your comment.

My goal is to translate accurately and simply for a new generation. One of the things I'm finding is that young people have a much smaller vocabulary in the UK than the older generation. Is this true in the USA too?

Some Christian jargon is not at all understood, or totally misunderstood, by non-evangelised young people.

My intention is to translate so accurately and so simply that there will be no requirement for footnotes.

I am concerned that vital words like metanoia (traditionally 'repentance'] - if they appear in the footnotes, 99% of teenage readers just won't see the footnote, and the word will just fly over thier heads, when a word like metanoia is utterly vital for an non-evangelised young persaon to understand if they are indeed to 'repent and believe'.

In fact, the scary news is (this is my own opinion) 80% of people calling themselves Christians don't know what 'repentance' actually means!

Even among so-called Bible-believing Christians, I still reckon at least 40% don't really know what the word 'repentance' actually means.

How do we solve this one?

Any ideas, anyone?

The floor is open! . . .please have your say . . .

In Christ Jesus

[email protected]

Nigel

 

Can we use more than one word to translate a word accurately?

 

The target audience: unsaved, unregenerated young people

This is such a challenge, people.

The target reader for this new version of the Bible that I'm working on is a young person who speaks English as either a first or second language, who is between the ages of 10 and 25, who is not saved (unregenerate), and who has no church background.

That said, however - I do not see any justification ever for bringing out a paraphrase 'Bible' (but please do not hear from me an attempt to 'tilt' at those who would disagree with this statement. I am merely making my personal viewpoint public).

So - the challenge - how to deliver a faithful accurate translation of the Received Text to a generation of unchurched, unsaved young people - and not even a close family member to communicate with them (so they've never heard the Gospel or even a brief testimony of a born again Christian).

I need your help.

I need your input.

I need your wise counsel.

I especially need your counsel if you do not regard yourself as wise.

I am attentive to your prayers, your thoughts, your opinions, your criticism.

Actually, I need all this.

Most of all (and please pray) - I need a TEAM.

Please do me a tremendous kindness/service/favor -
please copy this post and email it to every believer on your contacts list if you agree with my aims, and just put in the header, 'can you help this guy?' or something like that.

[email protected]

Thank you.

Nigel.

 

Thanks, John

John,

I appreciate your encouragement.

Kind ragards,

Nigel

 

Dear Mexdeaf

Thanks for your input. I think along the same lines, but I'm looking for feedback from others so I don't end up doing anything weird. Do you have any skills that you could bring to assist in this project?

Kind regards,

Nigel Dixon.