Biblical certificate - counseling

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, May 30, 2009.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    I just received from Light Univ advertising a pamphlet advertising a course in Biblical counseling.

    Has anyone ever taken this course?

    Thoughts?

    Salty
     
  2. Pastor David

    Pastor David
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    I haven't taken that one, but I would highly recommend taking Jay Adams course of Biblical Counseling study offered here www.Nouthetic.org

    I don't think you'll find a better course of study and application on Biblical counseling.
     
  3. RevGKG

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    I personally would not waste my time on a Jay Adams course.
     
  4. gb93433

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    The books I bought years ago by Adams ended up in the trash. I do not recommend him at all.

    I recommend the book Christian Counseling 3rd Edition: Revised and Updated by Gary R. Collins

    I also recommend books by Norman Wright. His website is at http://www.hnormanwright.com/
     
    #4 gb93433, May 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2009
  5. Dr. Bob

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    Dr Adam's materials use only scripture to "confront" problems, not the typical psycho-mumbo-jumbo and secular (and some "christian" counselors). I'd prefer to see someone focused on the Word of God for solutions rather than the thinking of man.

    Collins, Crab, Wright, et al have some good in their materials. But not nearly as much as "Competent to Counsel" by Adams as a primer.

    Sharing opinion from 40 years pastoring.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    Adams is much better than most in that he has a heavy focus on Scripture. Too much that is parading about as biblical counseling doesn't have much Bible in it, other than a prop. True hope has to come from Scripture which alone deals with the reality of the human condition.

    Over Adams, I would recommend CCEF. Ed Welch, Bruce Powlinson, Paul Tripp, and some others do an excellent job, better than Adams, and far better than Collins, Crabb, Wright, and others who are integrationists by and large. Their anthropology is definitely faulty and they do not believe in the sufficiency of Scripture. I would stay away from them like the plague if you intend to help people find real hope.
     
  7. paidagogos

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    Scriptural counseling............

    Welch, Powlinson, Tripp, et. al. all owe their debt to Adams. Biblical counseling (i.e. nouthetic counseling) is his brainchild. Too many people misinterpret Adams who places counseling below the ministry of preaching. He is right, I think.

    Of course, you have guys like Bobgan who throw out the baby with the bath water.
     
  8. paidagogos

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    Opinions are like noses; everyone has one.

    Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion and you have unreservedly expressed it. As expressed, such opinions are like saying, "I don't like vanilla ice cream." Now, can you give us reasons?
     
  9. paidagogos

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    Collins, Wright & Company

    As a psychologist, I find both Collins and Wright to be very bland. (Does Wright have an earned doctorate?) They take the standard psychological pabulum for public consumption, decorate it with a few Scriptures, and offer it to the Christian public. As theologians, I find them lacking in substance and depth. They use an out-and-out intergrationist approach with the psychological perspective providing the grid forced upon Scripture.

    As for Larry Crabb, who knows what he thinks. Take your choice--early, middle, or late Crabb. He's all over the spectrum.

    GB, could you elaborate on what you don't like about Adams?
     
  10. Pastor David

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    Having spent the better part of the last two years completing Adams' Nouthetic Couseling certification program, I can say it has deepened my understanding of the Scriptures, increased my ability to effectively minister to others, and has had a real impact on those who have been exposed to this method of Biblical counseling. After having read a couple dozen of his books, it has become my opinion that Adams is one of the most underestimated pastor/teachers (not to mention Greek scholar) in our generation.
     
    #10 Pastor David, Jun 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2009
  11. Salty

    Salty
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    Some interesting discussion, but would someone answer the OP?
     
  12. Marcia

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    I would try to find out what reputation they have among pastors and Christian counselors, and even non-Christian counselors.

    I noticed they have a course, "raising kids God's way" or something like that. I don't know if they are aligned with the group that was doing "Growing Kids God's Way" several years ago, but that group ended up teaching some unbiblical things and they were heavily criticized. I don't think they exist anymore (I had friends who left the course due to their concerns and I read some articles on them).

    Whenever I see someone tellling me how to raise kids or teens "God's way," I am skeptical. Using biblical principles is one thing, but having a sure-fire "God's way" method is not likely.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty
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    That is exactly what I am trying to find out
     
  14. gb93433

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    It has been many years since I read Adams so I can only comment from memory which is getting worse. At the time I read it I felt that it was too rationalistic in interpreting scripture. I saw some of the issues he addressed as right or wrong and he waffled around on them as though he was not sure what scripture taught or he was not very dogmatic about it. I am not sure if I can bring up one of the subjects on the posting.

    Wright was a professor at Talbot seminary. I think he is now retired. A professor I had at SWBTS for counseling who was also a professional counselor thought he was one of the best. When I listened to several of Wright's tapes on how to deal with people I agreed. A friend of mine who was a professional counselor seems to think that Wright is good too. On of the things that I particularly liked about Wright was that he teamed up with a divorce lawyer and when the lawyer took $500 from the client thew lawyer told the client that they could get counsleing from Wright or use it toward a divorce. If they got counseling the $500 would be applied toward counseling. If after counseling they decided to get divorced the $500 would be applied toward the divorce. Wright's bio is at http://www.hnormanwright.com/index....15&chapter=0&zenid=4lqihqlin7rutup2efjtcl8483

    Just because a counselor does not come out with loads of Bible verses does not mean that he does not know scripture and believe the Bible. I tend to think I believe scripture more than most people but I do not have much expertise in dealing with particular issues with people.

    I just happen to think there are Christians whom God has gifted with wisdom on how to deal with people in particular situations that would use the ministry of a gifted counselor.
     
  15. Salty

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    I dont care about Adams,

    how about the OP?
     
  16. Marcia

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    Maybe if you are having such a hard time trying to find out about them, it's an indication they have graduated very few people, or their graduates are not good at getting or keeping jobs or are not working in the counseling field. Of course, I wouldn't give up yet. Are you looking beyond the BB for info?
     
  17. Pastor Larry

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    I think the point is that you can do better with the resources of people like Adams and CCEF who are unquestionably good and biblical rather than something you know nothing about.

    In spite of the GB says, Wright and those like him are very problemmatic in that they are integrationists. They take a simplistic view of human nature that does not actually provide real hope on purpose. They use some biblical ideas (I have some of their books), and there's no doubt that they can bring about behavioral change. But they are not well versed in the Scripture's teaching on humanity and the way to deal with human problems, and too much of the teaching is man-centered rather than Scripture-centered.

    You can find everything they have along with better stuff in a known commodity like CCEF.
     
    #17 Pastor Larry, Jun 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2009
  18. gb93433

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    I have found that there are about as many opinions about counseling programs as there are people. Counseling is a specialized field of study and then add to that the many theological schools of each different brand of theology you can imagine you end up trying to find a counseling program with each brand of theology it becomes very complicated. What I would look for is to find some counselors who are good counselors and ask them about schools.

    If someone asked me today about a recommendation for a theological school if one wants to be a pastor there are very few I would recommend.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    But what do you mean by "good counselor"? I would not call Wright a "good counselor" in the real sense of the term. The designation "good counselor" is going to depend on subjective issues too often. Obviously, you and I disagree on who a "good counselor" is. How do we solve that?

    I think you have it exactly backwards. Rather than asking "good counselors" who they recommend, I think the better place to start is with theology. We must first ask, "What does the Bible teach about man, problems, and change?" Then find a counselor who reflects that in his theology and methodology.
     
  20. gb93433

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    My opinion is that from what I know of Wright he is a good counselor. I have listened to many of his tapes and read some of his books. Those I know who seem to think well of him are counselors I consider godly people and have been practicing for quite awhile. I do not expect a counselor to be a theologian any more than I expect a pastor to be a counselor. However I expect the results of their work to help people and be in line with what the Bible teaches. I do expect their basic theology to be correct and in use.

    The main thing I look for is the results. The resuklts stem from personal convictions and theology. Many a preacher professes he is a pastor when he is nothing more than blowing smoke. I think counselors are the same way. When looking for a pastor I want to see someone who lives the Christian life according to scripture and leads both his family and church according to scripture in that he makes disciples and does not just preach empty words. I want to see the same thing in a counselor. The proof of their work is in the results they produce in changed lives.

    On the basis of Hebrew s 13:7 I disagree. We have too many who sound good and are nothing more than useless. Don't you think that good counselors have good theology and produce good fruit? How can a fig tree produce grapes? Out of a little fun I could not help but think about what you wrote about Wright and his connections to Talbot Seminary--a dispensational school. Are there flaws in that theology?:laugh:

    Personally I do not find very many pastors who study all that much. If they did why would they buy into programs such as Purpose Driven Life and PD Church? If they studied very much why has the biblical literacy rate gone down? It is the same way with those who call themselves counselors.

    Have you looked at his bio at http://www.hnormanwright.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=15&chapter=0
     

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