Biblically "Authorized" Worship

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Scarlett O., Jun 22, 2007.

  1. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,833
    Likes Received:
    114
    **I am purposely putting this in the "Other Christian Denominations" forum because I believe that all Christians are made to worship God and whether you are a Baptist or not is irrelevant to your discussion of biblical worship.**
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Most of my life, I have seen Christians debate over what is acceptable in a worship service and what is not.


    This list is by no means exhaustive.
    • instruments
    • mode of dress
    • psalms vs. hymns vs. responsive readings vs. contemporary music
    • persuasive preaching vs. expository teaching from the pulpit
    • children's church
    • the lifting of hands
    • the "amen" corner
    • tithes vs. offerings vs. both
    • altar calls
    • the use of PowerPoint, screens, cd music, videos....
    • the use of anecdotal stories by the preacher
    • drama, puppets, cantatas, and other "programs"
    After reading and posting on the other thread, "Why do we worship as we do?" and seeing that another poster used his concordance to investigate "worship", I decided to do the same.

    I've spent the large portion of this afternoon reading through the 188 passages of the King James version of the bible where the word, "worship", is mentioned. (biblegateway.com)

    I find no biblically mandated "elements" of worship.

    I did find several characteristics and prompts/responses that describe and accompany worship, but nowhere did I find that mysterious list of what "elements" are commanded or banned from a church's order of service.

    Here is my own personal organization of what I found this afternoon. Feel free to disagree with anything I say.

    BIBLICAL WORSHIP
    1. What is biblical worship?
    • Something only intended for God, Himself. (Ex. 34:14; Ps. 81:9; Matt. 4:10; Luke 4:8)
    • Some due Jesus Christ because He is God's Son (Matt. 14:33)
    • Humanity meeting God where He is. (Matt. 2:2; Mark 5:6; Act 8:22)
    2. What prompted worship in the bible?
    • A response to God's actions (His deliverance, His call to worship, and His revelation.) (Ex. 4:31; 12:27; 24:1; Judges 7:15)
    • The fear of God (Ps. 22:27)
    • Personal belief (John 9:38)
    3. How did people prepare for worship?
    • Physical (bodily) preparations (2 Sam. 12:20)
    • Genuine repentance had to come first (1 Sam. 15:30)
    • Spiritual preparations (Job 1:20; 1 Chron. 16:29; Ps. 96:9; John 4:23-24; Phil 3:3)
    4. What did people literally and physically do during worship? Well, sometimes they....
    • bowed their heads (Gen 24:26; 24:48; Ex. 4:31; 12:27; 34:8; 1 Chron. 29:20; Neh. 8:6)
    • physically fell in humility (and so did/do spirit beings) (Gen. 24:52; Josh. 5:14; Ps. 95:6; Matt. 2:11; 28:9; 2 Chron. 20:18; 29:29; Rev. 5:14; 7:11; 11:16; 19:4)
    • sang (2 Chron. 29:28-30; Ps. 66:4)
    • played instruments (2 Chron. 29:28)
    • read God's Word (Neh. 9:3)
    • lifted their hands (Neh. 8:6)
    • participated in great and joyous celebrations (Zech. 14:16)
    • stood up in acknowledgement of God's presence (Ex. 33:10)
    • confessed their sin (Neh. 9:3)
    • prayed in gratitude and made petitions (Gen. 24:26; 24:48; Matt. 8:2; 9:18; 15:25)
    • made sacrifices and gave offerings (Deut. 26:10; 1 Sam. 1:3; 2 Chron. 29:29; 2 Kings 17:36; Matt. 2:11)
    • dedicated lives to God (1 Sam. 1:28)
    5. What were the attributes of God that were focused on during worship?
    • exalting His very Being (Ps. 99:5-9)
    • the glory of His Name (1 Chron. 16:29; Ps. 29:2; 86:9)
    • His mercy and goodness (2 Chron. 7:3)
    • His loving kindness (Ps. 138:2)
    6. How did they know that they had experienced genuine worship?
    • They bore the spiritual fruit of joy. (Luke 24:52)
    7. What prevented them from experiencing true worship?
    • vain traditions of men. (Matt. 15:9; Mark 7:7)
    • insincere repentance and/or making excuses for and blaming others for their sin (1 Sam. 15:25)
    Perhaps we all, and I mean ALL, are focusing on the wrong things in our our discussion of corporate, public worship.

    I know that we all, and I mean ALL, have gotten our noses out of joint over the so-called "elements" of worship and have lost track of the truth of worship.

    I think we all, and I mean ALL, could do with some private and personal reflection and seeking God over this.

    I'll start with the lady that I see in the mirror. :flower:
     
    #1 Scarlett O., Jun 22, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2007
  2. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    Wow Scarlett! What a great list!

    Now I need to spend some "in-depth" time with it . . .
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4


    I like them all but on "mode of dress" I think we should show honor to the King of the Universe when possible-- yet a beach campfire service is not out of the question in my view--:jesus:
     
  4. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    True. I've been to a couple of wonderful beach campfire services. One in a clearing in the woods.
     
  5. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    Scarlett,

    It might be a good attempt to outline the elements and the aspects of the worship service for our God.
    My little comments are the followings though you have reflected more than I can usually think about.

    1) As a whole, I would like to include the concept of Remembrance.
    In the worship service, we remember the Lord who suffered the great pain on our behalf on that day, and now is glorified on high in the Heaven, but still helps us by intercession.
    We remember what He did at the Cross, paying out all the debts of ours by shedding the precious Blood and dying the painful death.
    This is important because we are not asking God anything in the worship service, because we praise Him and glorify Him for His love and grace thru Jesus Christ, and remember His mercy toward us.

    2) I believe the most important elements of the Worship Service is the Lord's Supper, and the Early Church performed the Lord's Supper every week, in remembrance of Him which commemorated the Death of Jesus Christ until He comes ( 1 Cor 11:23-30). John Calvin mentioned Lord Supper should be kept at least once a week ( desirably twice a week), John Wesley wrote the Oxford students that the Lord's Supper must be remembered once a week, and the Bible tells us "Hosakis" which means "As often as" in 1 Cor 11. So, it should not be replaced by the summons of any human beings.

    3) I am not sure whether Drama, or puppet show can be included in the worship service, even though they can be good methods of preaching the Gospels in other meetings ( not at the worship service), because Worship Service is dedicated for the Lord, remembering His Grace and what He did for us, in the manner taught to us.

    4) As for the Attributes of God, I agree with the Jewish acknowledgements of 10 Attributes of God described in Exodus 20 and 34:
    God is
    - Jehovah ( Self Existence)
    - Holy
    - merciful and gracious
    - Longsuffering
    - Abundant in Goodness and Truth
    - Keeping mercy for thousands
    - Forgiving Iniquity and Transgressions
    - Forgiveness of Sins but not without punishing them by taking them away for Himself
    - Visiting the Iniquity of the fathers upon Children, unto 3rd and to the 4th generation
    - jealous against any idolatry


    " Forgiveness of Sins but not without punishing them by taking them away for Himself" sounds most interesting and important for me.( Ex 34:7)
     
    #5 Eliyahu, Jun 23, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  6. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why is the OT liturgy detailed but no mention of a NT liturgy? Maybe because everyone KNOW what worship was - it was temple worship.
     
  7. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    What was the OT liturgy?

    The Temple has changed :

    Tabernacle
    Temple ( Solomon- Zerubbabel-Herod)
    Body of Jesus Christ ( John 2:19)
    Body of the Believers where Holy Spirit dwells ( 1 Cor 3:16)

    Many people misunderstand the Church Building as the temple.
     
  8. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why would this not be worship? Using the talent God gave you to serve Him and share the Gospel is definately worship.
     
  9. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    It depends on how to define the word " Worship, because some churches like ours use the word Worship distinguished from other meetings.

    For example, if we ask God to do something or teaching the people, it is not worship service toward God. Worship means the praise, thanksgiving, adoration toward God. If someone teaches the people, it is not addressed to God but to the people. We don't worship the people. It is a distribution of what we have already received from God, in case of Gospel meeting.

    So, we don't teach the people at the Worship Service, but glorify God, give thanks to God, any other activities in adoration to God.

    We have separate meetings for Prayer, Fellowship, Bible Study, Stewardship meetings, Youth group meetings, etc. which are different from Worship Service.

    But sometimes I notice some other people saying all the meetings are worship services. They call the prayer meeting for healing some diseases also as Worship Service, asking God to find jobs also as Worship Service, teaching people with Gospel as Worshipping God, which I was familiar with in the past before I joined PB, but don't follow now.

    However, in our meetings, the worship service is entirely devoted and addressed to God, giving thanks to Him, remembering what He has done for us already at the Cross, believing in Him and how He loved us, and therefore the elements of the worship services are Praise, Thanks, Believe, Remember, Adoration, and therefore we normally include the Lord's Supper in Remembrance of Jesus Christ.
     
    #9 Eliyahu, Jun 23, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  10. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly...and being obedient to God by using our time talent and treasure is praise, thanksgiving and adoration towards God who gave us these to use. Even sharing the Gospel with the lost is a form of woship, as we are praising and thanking God who gave us eternal life by being obedient, and wanting to share this wonerful news with others. I think you are really limiting what true worship is.
     
  11. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, I don't limit the worship to my terms. If one can glorify God by whatsoever activities, it is fine. Sometimes, I noticed some people include the singing with Jewish Dancing, as long as it is expressed to God, it can be a worship service. But I hope you are not teaching Gospel to God, but to the people. Worship is directed only to God, as we worship no one else than God.
    In a broader sense, our whole life may be called the worshipping God. However we must remember that some people misused the term and Jesus already pointed out this:
    Killing the people for the Lord may be excused as worship service !

    John 16
    2 They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.

    I am very sure that we must correctly define the Worship Service dedicated and addressed to God.
     
  12. Link

    Link
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is some food for thought.

    The words most commonly translated 'worship' in scripture refer to prostration, bowing down with one's head toward the floor/ground. No wonder the man who did not know that Jesus was the Son of God worshipped Him. No wonder John worshipped the angel.

    Also, notice that the Bible does not tell us to 'worship' in church meetings.

    In church meetings, we are commanded to 'exhort one another.' (Hebrews 10:24-25.) We can see from I Corinthians 14 that in our meetings, the members of the body of Christ are to take turns speaking and singing, using their gifts to edify the body. There is no talk of 'the pastor' giving 'the sermon' in scripture.

    Link
     
  13. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    Acts 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

    Acts 8:25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

    Acts 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

    Acts 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.

    Contrary to your thinking Link, the Word of God was central to the services of the early believers, and was always preached. The most important thing in their services was "doctrine" or teaching. We see that right from the Day of Pentecost, where as soon as they were saved it says:

    Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
    --Doctrine is first in the list because it is the most important.

    1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
     
  14. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,833
    Likes Received:
    114
    You missed the point of this thread.

    We weren't talking about a church service. I think everyone understands that preaching is intregal to the church service.

    This thread is about worship. No where that I saw in the 188 passages pertaining to worship (KJV) was there any preaching going on. Sometimes the worship was personal and sometimes it was familial. Anyone can feel free to correct me on that.

    We were talking about worship......and what the bible says about that.

    Frankly, I believe that we have it all wrong. It's not that we should be having a worship service.....but we've got to distinguish "worship" from "service".

    Just the mere joining of those two word has caused Christians, world-wide, to believe that coming to church and singing a few songs and listening to a preacher has constituted worship. I submit, based on the 188 passages about worship, that it does not.

    And even worse is, Christians all around the world believe that worship can only take place in a church sanctuary if a preacher is there or if a song director is leading in some hymns.

    We've really gotten away from what the bible says that worship is.

    No one was talking about preaching not being an intregal part of the Christians gathering regularly. It is an intregal part. The point was raised that preaching isn't what personal or corporate worship is about.
     
    #14 Scarlett O., Jul 13, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2007
  15. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think so.

    Ac 24:14 - Show Context But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
    Php 3:3 - Show Context For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
    ( from crosswalk.com)

    I don't think Paul was kneeling down or bowing down all the time throughout his life. Worship sometimes meant the servicing God in the life.

    The main points of the church meetings are 1) Worship God and 2) Fellowship in Christ who is the Word of God.

    Therefore, it is absolutely essential that the church meeting should include the Worship Service for God, which gives the thanks and praise to God for what He did for us.
    This is just a part of it.

    1 Cor 14:17

    Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

    25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth


    26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying

    Giving Thanks, Worship, Praise are the factors of the Worshipping God in the church meeting, while Sermon, doctrines, prophesy may be factors of Teaching the people.


    If the church meeting doesn't thank and praise God, what is that?

    Believers should not worship any other than God, therefore Worship is the word for God, while fellowship and teachings are for the people, edifying the beliefs of the people.


    What if there is no worship of God in the regular weekly service meeting of the church?

    Then it would be ridiculous, Sir.
     
  16. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I agree with most of what you say Scarlett. But read again some of Link's posts. He misinterprets 1Cor.14, believing that the gifts of tongues, prophecy, interpretation, revelatory knowledge, etc. are still for today. They are not. They have ceased. Based on that false assumption he states that the service described in 1Cor.14 is full of worship. That chapter was describing something unique to the first century, not today. The gifts have ceased.
    Even so, Paul is emphasizing in that chapter to seek after prophecy above all things. Prophecy was the preaching of God's Word. Link states that he finds nowhere in Scripture where the preaching of God's Word was central to the service, and yet it is there right in the midst of 1Cor.14, as well as in multiple passages of Act. He is clearly wrong in his assessment of the Scriptures.

    As for worship, there is worship in the church service, but very little. We worship in prayer, and we worship in song. But compared to the preaching of God's Word that takes up very little time in the average service. So you are right in saying that "worship service" is actually a misnomer.
    True worship should be done at home, as Jesus instructs to do in Mat.6:5,6. Be alone with God. Pray and read His Word. Let God speak to you through His Word, and you speak to God through a time of prayer. Worship Him. Find the time. Communicate with the one that you say that you have a relationship with. That is where true worship is found--alone with God.
     
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: Upon what do you base the notion that they have “ceased?” Even if you take the position that they have ceased, where is there any indication that God has not, or might not in the future, reinstate the manifestation of them for whatever purpose(s) He might see fit?


    HP: Possibly we do not have our services structured in light of Scripture? Where do you give time for every one that hath a doctrine, etc. to express it for the edification of all in your service?
     
    #17 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2007
  18. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134

    I have already been discussing this in another thread. I would rather ask you: Give any valid evidence that any of the sign gifts are in operation today as they were in the days of the Apostles. Can you do that for me?
    The Scripture quoted is a verse taken out of context. There is no verse that says everyone has a doctrine, every one has a revelation etc. The verse misquoted is a rebuke. The Corinthians were coming to the service all elated and carnal causing confusion by all trying to speak at the same time--claiming to have a psalm, doctrine, revelation, etc. It really wasn't so. In spite of what the KJV says, the sense of the Greek is that "Some of you are coming here with a Psalm, and some of you with a doctrine, and some of you with a revelation. Even at that it was a rebuke. They couldn't all speak. It was total chaos and confusion. So Paul lays down guidelines. Only two or three were to speak. They were to speak in turn. If in tongues they had to speak with an interpreter or they were to be completely silent. God is not a God of confusion but of order. The Corinthian Church was in chaos and confusion. Paul was trying to bring order to it. The verse was a rebuke. Not everyone had a doctrine. It was a sarcastic statement much like I would say to you: "You know everything don't you!" But you don't, do you?
     
  19. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    HP & DHK,

    On those issues, I would rather agree with HP, though I do respect and understand the views of DHK.

    As for the gifts, even in our church and many believers say that the supernatural gifts have been ceased since the completion of the Bible.
    However, I personally believe that the grace of God is unlimited and the gifts of the Holy Spirit are always available as long as the Believers are humbled enough and trust in Him enough to use them properly for the glory of the Lord. The main problem is that the believers of this generation do not have such faith that they trust God only.
    It is not God that limit the work of HS, but the mind barrier of the believers. In this era almost all the miracles or any supernatural gifts are deception, as we understand about Benny Hinn etc. ( I can hardly trust any possibility of miraculous gifts )

    However, we know that God works within us, helping us with many of small things everyday.
    As long as we have such people who have the faith of Elijah or Paul, we can have such powerful works too. The only problem is we, the believers, not the limitation by God.
    What we must admit is that in this era, we can hardly see such good and powerful faith which we must pursue and pray for.
    Though someone point out 1 Cor 13:10 for the abolishment, I still believe that the problem is we, the believers' lack of faith, and there is a certain possiblity that God extends such gifts again in the era of harvest as He showed it in the era of seed-sowing.

    As for the aspects of the Worship in the church meetings, there are plenty of the components for the worship in church services. In our case we devote the entire time for the Worshipping God 75 minutes every week, before the sermon meeting which focus on the Gospel, Doctrines, Testimony, Singing etc, and in the Worship Service we praise and thank God and remember what Jesus has done at the Cross, pray and adore Him.

    We separate Worship Service and Sermon Meeting on Sunday, we have Bilble Study meeting on Wednesday, Prayer meeting on Friday, Stewardship meeting on Tuesday, and some Special missionary meetings on Saturday as well. All the meeings may contain certain Worship of God as they include the prayers and thanks, and praise to God.
    What we have to avoid is the focus on the human beings, the preachers, and singers but God should be centered and exalted, and glorified, with many people participating there, instead of the one-man-show by the preacher as all the believers are the honorable guests to the party hosted by our Lord Jesus, prepared with His Blood.

    I feel this type of church meeting schedule is quite rich and abundunt spiritually.
     
    #19 Eliyahu, Jul 13, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2007
  20. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0

    HP: First, God’s activity in this world is not limited to my personal experiences, insight or abilities. I can say that I personally have never witnessed the sign gifts in a way that would persuade me, on my personal visual evidence alone, that they are in operation today. I can tell you that especially in the terms of missions, the Pentecostals often lead the way. I thank the Lord that the gospel of Jesus Christ is going forth by their means, for if evangelization was left to me and you, where would missions be today?

    Let’s say that the sign gifts are not operational, yet some proclaim as they spread the gospel, they are. Would they be in any less error than much of the preaching and teaching in many of what we might call the ‘orthodox’ churches today? I think not. It is obvious to me that God often works in spite of our doctrines and practices. God has indeed used the Pentecostals to further His gospel in ways you and I will never see accomplished. That by no means is evidence that you or I would agree with them on the sign gifts. That is no indication that God still could not use the sign gifts for His own purposes in the future if He so chooses to do so. As I have said before, as we reach the culmination of the final age, we will have to be very discerning, for the devil will also be at work with signs and wonders.



    ?


    HP: 1Co 14:26 ¶ How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

    I would agree that the Corinthians were receiving much needed instruction from the apostle Paul, yet just the same I see no reason to believe that the verse in question is telling them that they should not be bringing doctrines, psalms, tongues or revelations to the assembly for the edification of al, but rather when they do to do all things unto edifying in an orderly fashion. As for tongues, they were instructed clearly NOT to forbid the speaking in tongues. Just the same, Paul did rebuke them for the misuse of that gift, and laid out prophesy in their own language as far more edifying to the whole congregation, unless their was an interpreter. Just the same, it was Paul’s wisdom and practice to speak words in their own language as opposed to tongues within the assembly. While he gave them His opinion, he allowed for the Spirit to utilize means he personally did not feel was needed.

    God has taught me to be VERY careful in writing of what at the time seemed to me as being done in the flesh, lest I mistakenly utter contempt upon what might in fact be of the Spirit. Although I believe Scripture never instructs us to seek tongues or a sign gift, I will error on the side of caution as opposed to saying ‘no sign gifts’ are in operation today, or that they have no place in the church today. I believe that we as believers can judge the doctrines associated with any manifestation according to the Word of God, or judge when the gifts are clearly used not in accordance to the instructions Paul laid down for the church. Just the same, all correction or admonishment must be accomplished in love.


    HP: Yes, he rebuked them, but never did he say any of those things were expressly forbidden. He did not admonish them that to have a psalm, a doctrine, a revelation or an interpretation was in error, did he? He simply told them to do all things to edifying, decently and in order.


    HP: Again, although I agree that there was obvious chaos, Paul never told them or implied that they could not or should not do any of the things mentioned, but rather to do ALL things to the edification of the whole body of believers.

    Even if it was as you say, that Paul was saying, "You know everything don't you!" But you don't, do you” you still cannot extrapolate that interpretation to suggest that he was forbidding the very things he was trying to get them to do decently, in order, unto edification.
     
    #20 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2007

Share This Page

Loading...