Bill to Expand Hate Crimes Law to Attacks on Gays

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Dragoon68, May 3, 2007.

  1. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    Here's something to about which to get excited about and to let your representatives know where you stand:

    House OKs Bill to Expand Hate Crimes Law to Attacks on Gays


    This, along with the original legislation creating "hate crimes", is completely un-Constitutional and proposes a gross infringement upon the rights of the people and the States.
     
  2. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
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    No more an infringement than the people who picket funerals with signs like "Matthew Shepard Burns In Hell."
     
  3. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    The problem with this law is it governs the thoughts of people. What a proverbial slippery slope we are intent on traveling on. But more importantly this is a toll to bring about acceptance to such a perverted and ungodly life style. It has very little acceptance even among non-Christians and so the minority are trying to rule through tyranny.
     
  4. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
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    ... because the government is supposed to do what the Christians tell it to.
     
  5. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Actually Christians should be concerned for the things of God even in governemnt and should not make false attempts to lead dual lives.
     
  6. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    I would argue with that.
    While I don't think that picketing a funeral is a great thing to do, dead sodomites who die in a state of unbelief are in fact in hell.

    This bill is framing mischief by a law and is wicked!
     
  7. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
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    OK, you need to just stop talking, because you are obviously so stupid you cannot spare the oxygen.

    Argue away, but you are wrong. And stupid. Probably ugly, too.
     
  8. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    You cannot govern thoughts. But you can make laws governing behavior. Why anyone would have issues with outlawing hateful actions is beyond me.
     
  9. Rufus_1611

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    Some people believe that this nation should remain a Republic and the bill of rights should matter.
     
  10. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    Hateful actions that result in crimes are already illegal. A "crime" is a crime and needs no qualifier of "hate" or "non-hate". These acts seriously and often permanently harm people. That's why states prosecute murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc. under existing law. There are even degrees of these crimes clearly specified by law. This provides a way for those harmed to seek justice. That's a purpose of government.

    Hateful actions that don't result in crimes - albeit wrong in the absolute sense - are not illegal. For example, cursing someone is wrong but it's not normally illegal. These acts don't seriously or permanently harm people. They may be offensive, troublesome, etc. but people can get over them. People must accept that there is not absolute justice among men and others may direct such offensive but not illegal conduct their way. Government need not concern itself with these things.

    The issue is that this is yet another attempt to usurp the power of the people and the state by transferring the decision to prosecute to the federal government. The message is that state government is unable to properly administer justice. With this comes excessive regulations designed to alter the behavior of persons in a proactive manner and more federal agents with arrest powers to enforce them. Proactive government sounds good to some but it is completely different than the normal reactive role of seeking justice for a crime.

    Government in general and the federal government specifically can't effectively handle everything we really need it to do as it is. There's no reason to believe adding more "hate crime" legislation will some how make things better for everyone. More legislation won't change the nature of "crime"! It will become power misused and focused on the wrong issues. The agents of government can be, and often are, as offensive as those they seek to regulate. That's the natural tendency of government.

    The conduct of society is best regulated by the underlying moral character of its citizens and their desire to walk in way pleasing to the Lord. If the society is so far gone that it does not hold voluntarily hold to some level of civil conduct then we can not expect its government to be any better since, in our Republic, it comes from among us.
     
  11. Magnetic Poles

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    Of which, I am one. However outlawing behavior is the only thing you can regulate. As I pointed out, you cannot stop peoples thoughts. But you can make hateful actions illegal. Or maybe you don't care about the Constitutional rights of those you would victimize?
     
  12. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Actions can be governed without applying a hate element to it which is in itself thought. there is not but one reason to apply hate to a crime except to make crimes against homosexuals on a higher level.
     
  13. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
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    ... and crimes agains African-Americans, and crimes against Hispanic Americans, and against Asian Americans and Native Americans and Middle Eastern and so on...

    And the point is that these crimes aren't carried out because someone wants to rob another person, or beat another person, or rape or kill another person just because another person is present. The point is that these crimes are carried out specifically because the victim is "different."

    Honestly, it's a very simple concept.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    But how does that make the crime any different? Beating someone is beating someone, regardless of reason. It is wrong. It doesn't really matter why.
     
  15. tragic_pizza

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    A matter of weight, honestly.

    Beating is always wrong, yes. You cannot address every antecedent which leads to a beating.

    Yet we can prosecute domestic violence and child abuse as domestic violence and child abuse even though each of these is, at its most basic, a beating.

    Thus a beating carried out because another person is "different" carries a similar weight to domestic violence or child abuse, not because of the action, but because of the identity of the victim.
     
  16. Alcott

    Alcott
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    Is it true or untrue, as I have read from a couple of sources, that in some countries-- Netherlands, for one-- they have such "hate" legislation and it has been used to prosecute ministers who preach that homosexuality is evil as accessories to the crime in acts against those people?
     
  17. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
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    I have heard this. I don't know how true it is.

    One hopes that in America common sense would prevail beofre that point, yet seeing how common sense hasn't been a ready resource very often in our history, nothing much would surprise me.
     
  18. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
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    A crime - murder, rape, robbery, etc. - carried out against someone who's "different" is no different. A crime carried out by or upon one who's the "same" is just as bad. It's a ridiculous concept that we measure the severity of a crime by who commits it or upon whom it's committed. Crime is already adequately covered by State law and there's nothing to be served by making it a Federal offensive except to usurp the power of the people and the States.
     
  19. pinoybaptist

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    And should the punishment for the murder of a sodomite be heavier and more severe than the punishment for the murder of a non-sodomite ? Ridiculous law smacking of politics from those who wish to ingratiate themselves to the noisy crowd of sodomites, lesbians, crossdressers, transvestites, and their fellow travelers.
     
  20. webdog

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    Isn't "hate crime" redundant? Is there such a thing as a crime committed out of love?
     

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