Birth Control ... Right or Wrong?

Aha, Bapmom knows what she thinks! Hers is the best answer I've heard yet. But we'll have to differ.

I believe that when God allowed man the technology and wisdom to understand the birth cycle as we do know that along with that, He gave man the responsibilty of making the choice of how, when and at what point to interupt the birth cycle. I find it very interesting that this wisdom only came to man at the point in world history to where it was needed as a form of population control.

I personally have made the decision that a zygote isn't truely human, only potentionally human and preventing implantation is no more murder than preventing the sperm from fertilizing the egg.

If I'm wrong, Paul says that I have liberty to do all things in Christ. While he goes on to say that all things aren't expedient to the cause of Christ and those should be avoided, I can't see where my use of BC or fertility drugs had that effect. If it had, I believe God would have pointed it out to me long ago. Let every man be convinced in his own mind.

 

Yes, and this was my original point. If you do not know when the soul enters a body, why would you be willing to take the chance of killing a baby in case the soul was already there? Wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution?

I'm sorry that you misunderstood. I meant that not in reference to your post, but to menageriekeeper in a post similar to the one above. I should have labeled the two quotes in that post. They were from menageriekeeper and Bunyon. Neither quote was from any of your posts.

Then are you being insincere when you say above that "we have no idea" when "a soul enters a human", or have you just made this personal decision without knowing when a soul enters a human? If you really don't know, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution?

 

So, then, can't the same logic be applied to using the intelligence God gave us to stop overpopulating? Are we not supposed to be good stewards of our planet? </font>[/QUOTE]We are hardly overpopulating, number one! The only reason the populations in a number of the European countries are remaining anywhere near stable is because of immigration! America is about there as well. Our birth population is not even at replacement in many places now. It is not a matter of population growth, but a matter of wasteful living by those who are alive already. I might venture to say as well that the least wasteful are those with more children -- they can't afford to waste anything!

Secondly, God has given 'the gift of healing' to a number of medical practitioners. This certainly implies that we are supposed to interact with them! However only God Himself gives life, and therefore, except for acts of war or capital punishment, both of which are biblical, it is His province to decide about life and death. No one I have heard of has been given the gift of giving life. So your attempted parallel certainly does not apply.

Even as Christians, most of us seem to be so far away from actual dependance upon God except as "co-pilot" (help me run my own life with the brains You gave me, Lord...) that we often are taking the name of Christ in vain in our own lives.

Following Christ is scary. It really is. It often means obedience even against what you think is 'best'. It means giving when you are not sure you have it left to give. It means keeping on keeping on when every ounce in you is crying for rest, be it physically, emotionally, or even spiritually. It will always be possible in HIS strength and with His help, which is why it is scary. It is nothing we could do on our own.

That includes having and raising children. Being responsible for another life which is that totally dependant on you is an ego trip for many and a life-changing responsibility that is quite heavy for those who take it a little more seriously.

I seriously doubt that people refuse to have children because of 'overpopulation'! That is a convenient excuse for limiting the size of one's family in order to 'afford' them -- which actually translates into "we really don't want to change our lifestyle of consumerism in order to accomodate children/more children."

If you cannot have children for medical reasons, or if it is a danger to your health that is something different. But how many use birth control for THAT reason? Probably about as many as get an abortion to save the life of the mother...

Either God is Lord or He is not. For each of us, it is our choice. We either follow Him or attempt to lead Him.

 

"I believe that when God allowed man the technology and wisdom to understand the birth cycle as we do know that along with that, He gave man the responsibility of making the choice of how, when and at what point to interrupt the birth cycle. I find it very interesting that this wisdom only came to man at the point in world history to where it was needed as a form of population control."-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manag, he also allowed us the technology to blow each other to smothering and pollute the world for eons. So does that mean he wants us to do it. He allowed us the knowledge to make films and cd, does that mean he wants us to watch pornography.

Your reasoning are so loose and unstable that I can only conclude you are not someone who really wants to find the answer, you just want some talking points that will shield you from real reasoning that would lead you to the truth.

 

Who's truth Bunyon?

God gave us no instructions on how many children to have or not have. His word doesn't tell us when life begins. Just because YOU say it begins with the fertilized egg, doesn't mean it does. The potential is there but at that moment it is only potential.

Because you have accused me of loose reasoning I'm going to back up my reasoning with scripture. There are two places that I know of that may relate to our conversation. The first is in Genesis 2:7 where God breathed life into Adam. We've covered this ground already. But a second point I want to convey is that there is no life without breath. A zygote has no breath. It won't even have the potential for breath until some weeks have passed and it is fully implanted.

There is a second mention of life in scriptures. It is found throughout the OT begining with Noah being commanded not to eat flesh which contains blood(Gen 9:4) because blood is life. Just as a person can't live without breath, he also can't live without blood. Again, zygotes do not have blood and won't have the potential for blood for some weeks and only after implantation.

How can you kill something that by Biblical definition isn't alive?

Now after about six weeks of development a fetus has both lungs and blood. By Biblical definition then it has life. Personally, I think if BC pills or BC in any form except abortion were such a big deal, God would have given us better instructions. He certainly knew that man would get to this point of time as to where this might be a question.

 

"Who's truth Bunyon?"-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That explains it. There we have it in a nutshell.

Buy the way, those commands were given because of practical reasons, not because some mystical life force lives in the blood. If that were the case, you would become another person if your blood was tranfused, and would have to resist such an abomination. Also, they eat the blood. There is no way to actually get rid of all the blood in meat.

 

ManagerieKeeper: IN other words, "God, we'll work together on this, but I get to lead, OK?"

 

Deadman, the world is overpopulated with humans when there are so many that we can't feed and shelter them. There are people starving everywhere because they lack the ability to buy or grow enough food to keep body and soul together.

Then the church comes in and tells these people who are already living in the dirt(card board shanties or whatever) that BC is wrong because it MIGHT be murder. I think before we accuse folk of sin or make them fearful of sinning, we better have something more substantial to tell them, than to err on the side of caution.

 

menageriekeeper, the reason people are starving isn't for lack of food! It is because of the politics involved in distributing it. There is more than enough room and food for everyone. However the powers that be in a lot of those countries with starving people are starving the people out intentionally.

 

"Then the church comes in and tells these people who are already living in the dirt(card board shanties or whatever) that BC is wrong because it MIGHT be murder. I think before we accuse folk of sin or make them fearful of sinning, we better have something more substantial to tell them, than to err on the side of caution. "------------------------------------------------------

With all due respect to everyone, I am only dealing with abortifacients. But the lack of food would be do to lack of cooperation and efficiency, not over population. Some of those nations will not be able to feed there whole pop. no matter what the Pop was.

 

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Bunyon you and I both have our feet dug in on this one. Ain't either one of us changing our position, so let me know when you are tired of arguing with me.

To answer your last comment, I don't believe I said there was a mystical life force in blood. What I said was that GOD said that life was in the blood.

[Now if we were still living under Jewish law we might have to abstain from blood transfusions, because of these laws. That is not the question. (anyway, Jews were commanded not to EAT the blood, not to transfuse it).]

Also God said that life began with breath. Now back to the question. how can you kill something that has no life, no breath, no blood?

Can you show me in SCRIPTURE anywhere else that might point me to a view that life can be without those two things?

Now Helen, we've already had the faith discussion. If it is faithless to use BC, then it is faithless to go to the doctor, period. It is also faithless to put away money in the bank, because the Bible says to take no thought of tomorrow, God will supply our needs. Now you can draw your line of faith whereever you choose to. Mine is drawn all around me. I don't just make decisions based on what I think. I have a Father I can go to when I have question and a Holy Spirit to lead me to the right ones. My decisions may be different than your's because we may be at different points in our spiritual growth. Or because in our daily lives there are those who will benefit from our decisions in ways God only knows. That is up to Him and I have faith enough that He will sort it all out in the end to His glory.

 

Eek, I seem to have gotten us off topic a bit, so one more question on this and I'll stop unless someone wants to make a new topic about it.

Helen, I understand that politics have a lot to do with it. But...is it responsible to continue bringing new children into an area where such conditions exist that it is more likely that they will die than live to adulthood?