Born Again? Where Did It Start? OT? NT?

Thank You Brother Tim,

Though I am not convinced.

Though Galatians 4 is an allegory, Paul seems to break out of the "allegory" with the following which I already posted:

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Not as Isaac "answers to" or "represents" but "as Issac was".

The following passage seems much more than an allegory with the language being used.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

But then again, I can't explain Jesus statement to John the Baptist about the "least" in the Kingdom of heaven being greater than John the Baptist.

Oh well, just have to wait and see.

HankD

 

HankD,

I think that Paul's comment that Isaac "was born after the Spirit" in Gal. 4:29 simply indicates the miraculous nature of Isaac's natural birth. (Also note btw that much of the phrase was added in translation). Isaac was a "miracle child", as it were, while Ishmael was not. I don't think Paul is making a statement about Isaac's salvation there, especially considering the context--Isaac had just been weaned when he was being persecuted by Ishmael--probably still too young to have come to faith.

I think Paul uses that particular language so he can extend the allegory (Isaac/ Christians) as he does through verse 31.

In Christ,

Tim

 

OK, I respect your view.



HankD

 

Hank,

That's a nice way of saying you still disagree.

Tim

 

Jesus used an alternative term; HE also called it being "born of the Spirit" (Jn. 3:8).

Jesus compared the concept of "born of the Spirit" with that of the wind --

Jesus said if one is "born again" they would be like the wind, going here and there, no one knowing from where they came or where they go (Jn. 3:3-8). I don't think that applies to any of us, yet.

If we were literally born again, we would no longer possess fleshly bodies, but literal spirit bodies. We may be spiritually conceived; we may be in the "womb" - church - waiting to be born, "born of the spirit".

 

Hi wopik,

The Scripture is very specific...

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Believing and the new birth cannot be separated.

I believe Jesus was simply telling Nicodemus that it (birth from above) is something he only has a partial knowledge concerning. He could observe its affect (Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him)
but as an unregenerate man he could not understand the source (How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?).

But there is one aspect of the new birth in which you are correct (IMO), we will not receive the full inheritance of our heavenly birth until the resurrection.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

HankD

 

HankD --

But there is one aspect of the new birth in which you are correct (IMO), we will not receive the full inheritance of our heavenly birth until the resurrection.

I like to make the analogy with human begettal and birth. When a human egg is fertilized in the womb, it is sometimes given a name and the parents already consider it their child.

I think we are in that "state" now, as Christians. God's Spirit has united with our spirit to make us - to beget us - as "children of God" (Rom. 8:16). IMO, we will be actually "born again", spiritually, this time, at the resurrection.