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Born of God

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Oct 15, 2008.

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  1. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    I doubt if he committed adultery when he was an infant, but where there is no Law, sin is not imputed, so he was not condemned and his soul was alive, but died when he did sin, and God had to make him alive through faith, after the Spirit at one time in his life. A soul "can not die" unless its alive, surely you can see that much.

    Were you lost, when you were born?
     
    #101 mark1, Oct 24, 2008
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    This does not answer my questions. Can you answer them one by one please?

    Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery?

    Was David righteous prior to his adultery?

    Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery?
     
    #102 steaver, Oct 24, 2008
  3. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    39: Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

    Should answer them all for you.

    I ask you again, were you lost when you were born? Was your soul dead in sin, when you were born?

    If you refuse to answer these, then how can I answer your question, for this is the answer.
     
    #103 mark1, Oct 24, 2008
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Maybe if I add a multiple choice you will understand my questions...

    Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David righteous prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery? (yes or no)
     
    #104 steaver, Oct 24, 2008
  5. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    David was not "unrighteous" when he was an infant. He knew neither good or evil, so therefore had not been condemned. Whether you can call it righteous or not, I do not know. I do say he was not lost and his soul was "alive". There came a time in his life he sinned and his soul died and he became unrighteous. At some time in his life, through faith and after the Spirit, he was made "alive" in the soul, so when he died, his soul went to be with Father Abraham, a type and figure of God.

    I gave you a full answer. I do not play games of "yes or no". People can play with the words too much when you do that. You will not set me up, as others.
     
    #105 mark1, Oct 24, 2008
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    This has nothing to do with my questions, but I will answer because questions do not bother me as they do some.

    I was dead in sin from conception because of Adam's sin even though I had not done any act of sin as of yet. Life and death is in the blood.

    Rom 5:14; Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
     
    #106 steaver, Oct 24, 2008
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Mark, this is the third time you answered with David as an "infant". I could care less about when he was an infant. I did not ask anything about David's infancy. Fast forward into his life as a young boy until the time he committed adultery and answer my questions please.

    Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David righteous prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    A "full" answer would begin with a "yes" or "no" and then an explanation.
     
    #107 steaver, Oct 24, 2008
  8. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    How did your soul die then, if it was already dead. Also, if you had of died you would of went to hell, so I guess you believe the road to hell is paved with the bones of babies?

    How come you were different than all the children in the camp of Israel, that were allowed to go in to the promise land?

     
    #108 mark1, Oct 24, 2008
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    There is an election according to grace. I do not know how God decides the fate of infants. He does not reveal much in this area. I do know for sure that anyone who hears the gospel and rejects it will be lost in hell.

    These two passages have nothing to do with this topic.
     
    #109 steaver, Oct 24, 2008
  10. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    Oh yes they do. David was conceived the same way. Seems to me if the soul dies when it sins, it has to of been alive. Don't take a rocket scientist to understand that.
     
    #110 mark1, Oct 24, 2008
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Ro 9:11; (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

    Did Jacob and Esau need the blood of Jesus? I assume yor answer is yes. Then this scripture has nothing to do with the topic. No one enters into heaven without the blood of Christ. Not infants, not anybody. It matters not if they actually performed an act of sin or not. Sin entered ALL through Adam's sin which is passed on through the blood. Infants have blood, even from conception.
     
    #111 steaver, Oct 24, 2008
  12. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Bed time :sleeping_2:

    Please think about my questions and give answer. I will check tomorrow. God Bless!

    :jesus:
     
    #112 steaver, Oct 24, 2008
  13. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    It is through his blood that we that have sinned are saved, and through his blood, that all shall be resurrected.

    If sin passes through the blood, then I am responsible for all the sins of my ancestors. I will stand before God for my sins only, and so will you. I am not responsible for my father's sins.

    Adam brought the natural death and the spiritual death, but when we are born, for the most part we do not die natural for many years. We do not die spiritual until the soul that sinneth shall die.

    Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
     
    #113 mark1, Oct 24, 2008
  14. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Not at all...

    Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

    You are not responsible for any act of sin committed by any ancester. You are, however, concieved in sin through the sinful blood of mankind...

    Rom 5:12; "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

    If you had no sinful blood brother, you would not die. Infants die.
     
    #114 steaver, Oct 25, 2008
  15. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David righteous prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    I know that answering these questions brings serious doubt to your theology. But shouldn't we be about making sure our views line up with reality?

    Think about these questions some more and please give an answer. I will check back later.

    :jesus:
     
    #115 steaver, Oct 25, 2008
  16. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    That is not true. The natural death is an appointment, because of the sin of Adam. We do not die the natural death because of our sins, we meet an appointment.

    Hbr 9:27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
     
    #116 mark1, Oct 25, 2008
  17. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    I have no problem whatsoever answering your questions.

    39: Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

    Should answer them all for you.

    I ask you again, were you lost when you were born? Was your soul dead in sin, when you were born?

    If you refuse to answer these, then how can I answer your question, for this is the answer.

    David was no different when he was a child.

    These children were let go in to the promise land, because they had not known good or evil. Therefore they were not condemned in sin.

    Study this scripture, there is a lot of knowledge in it. Maybe it will help you.

    So sin is not in our spirit or soul or body, its in our blood. That is a new one on me.

    So, if when we die and the mortician drains all our blood out of our bodies, then the sin is gone, is that what you are saying?
     
    #117 mark1, Oct 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2008
  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Ok, maybe it is just me. Can anyone here on the list explain to me how Deu 1:39 answers my questions? I just ain't gettin what Mark is trying to say with this verse.

    Israel disobeyed God and God punished them by having them wonder in the wilderness until that generation passed away.

    God said that their children would be the ones to possess the land which in that day when Israel disobeyed the children had no knowledge between good and evil, or in other words they were not given the choice to obey or disobey because they were not born yet, but would enter into the promissed land.

    So please! Someone explain to me how this answers these questions....

    Did David have faith in God prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David righteous prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery? (yes or no)
     
    #118 steaver, Oct 26, 2008
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Let me be more specific since this is what I asked of you. Yes, I was lost at conception in need of the blood of Jesus Christ to save me. Yes, I was dead in sin and in need of Jesus' sacrifice to save me.

    Now you can answer my questions in the same manner? If you can get your thoughts off of infants and get into adulthood, which is where my questions pertain to with David, then maybe you can give an understandable answer. I will edit them to get us off of the infancy subject...

    Did David (as an adult) have faith in God prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David (as an adult) righteous prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    Was David (as an adult) righteous because of faith yet unregenerated prior to his adultery? (yes or no)

    :jesus:
     
    #119 steaver, Oct 26, 2008
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    It is an appointment why?? Because Adam sinned and therefore death passed on to ALL because ALL have sinned. It is the curse placed on the blood of mankind.

    You know what would really help? If you just answer my questions!

    It is all through you! A soul is a person.
     
    #120 steaver, Oct 26, 2008
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