British Sovereignty

Discussion in 'Politics' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Jul 29, 2008.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Found this in another thread and did not want to drag that off topic. Could we see some evidence to back this up please? I do know that Ireland as well is now totally sovereign from the crown (as of 1949). So that alone is evidence that the US is not the only country to succeed. I think India and a few other nations have also succeeded.

    I also don't think that commonwealth status involves any loss of sovereignty.

    As far as I know the only nations that are still a part of the UK are listed in its full name - The United Kingdom of Britain [England, Scotland, Wales] and Northern Ireland.

    HERE is a list (Wikipedia admittedly) of the UK overseas territories.

    Perhaps if we were to include Canada and Australia the 1/6 aspect would be true.

    Any of our UK residents want to help me with this one?
     
    #1 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jul 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2008
  2. windcatcher

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    C4K,
    it serves well to bring this to my attention. I misspoke/wrote that we're the 'only' country to succeed from the British Empire. (I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that.... I type slow but sometimes my thoughts run fast.... there must have been some exclusionary 'only' point I intended to make when I typed that.) I really should know better: So few conditions meet the uniqueness to be 'only'.

    Now to the point regarding the British crown's rule over 1/6th of the world. I can't find where I read that or remember hearing that. The search I found, which is similar to the report you mention does indicate:
    FOUND HERE It is possible that the remembrance was out dated data in which case I apologize as it is not my purpose to mislead: I don't always go to sources when replying to post... and in my 60 years, much info has crossed my path and much has had to be ......shall we say 'readjusted'. So as not to mislead with the quote above this paragraph, from the same page I quote:
    I appreciate your question and the information I found because of it.:tongue3:
     
  3. windcatcher

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    More info regarding the Commonwealth etc:
    FROM HERE
    This article explains the ''Royal Perogative'', its scope and limitations of the Queen's power.

    Oh, I think I have a headache!.......
     
  4. Matt Black

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    The US is not the only country to have seceded from Britain/the British Empire. There have in fact been two, the second being Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) in 1965.

    I don't think you can really include the Commonwealth in the definition of 'Britain/the British Empire' since the Westminster Act of 1931; despite the fact that Brenda is also Queen of Canada, Australia and NZ, these are all separate sovereign countries in international law. The United Kingdom 'proper' consists of approximately 246,000 sq km (c94,000 sq mi in old money) of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, plus a few Crown dependencies which boil down to some bits of rock in the sea (Gibraltar, Falkland Is, South Georgia, St Helena etc). That's it.
     
  5. David Lamb

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    Cerainly the original statement is wrong - at least the portion I have highlighted:
    Few realize it, but the Bristish Crown still has sovereign claim over 1/6th of the land of the earth! It's collectively called the UK.


    As you say, the UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales (that is, Great Britain) and Northern Ireland. The site: http://www.know-britain.com/general/great_britain.html is useful on this:
    Great Britain is the largest island in Europe. "Great Britain" is the collective name for the three countries of England, Scotland and Wales. It also includes the small adjacent islands but it does not include the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.
    The United Kingdom is made up of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The official name "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" came into use in 1922 after the constitution of the Irish Free State (1922-1937), the former name of the Republic of Ireland.


    Not even the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are part of the UK:
    The Isle of Man and the Bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey are not part of Great Britain, they are not part of the United Kingdom and neither are they part of the European Union. They are self-governing British Crown dependencies.

    As for the 53 countries of the Commonwealth, they are not part of the UK, but are sovereign states. Queen Elizabeth II is the head of state of a mere 16 of those 53 countries, and even they are independent. Five have monarchs of their own, and 32 are republics. These countries cover 12.1 million square miles. The land area of the world is about 57.5 million square miles, so the Commonwealth is just over a fifth of that. The British Empire (which was replaced by the Commonwealth) was a bit larger. At its height, it covered about 14.2 million square miles, just over a quarter of the earth's land area.
    I hope that helps.
     
  6. Matt Black

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    Hence the (exaggerated) comment of Capt Edmund Blackadder:

    "I hardly think you can blame the Hun for empire-building: the British Empire covers half the globe, whereas the German Empire consists of a small sausage-making factory on the shores of Lake Tanganyika."
     
  7. David Lamb

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    Queen Brenda? Just heard the lunchtime news, and there was no mention of Queen Elizabeth having died. Even if she had, as far as I know, there is no Brenda in the line of succession (though some rather unlikely-looking names are found there - Xan at No. 21, Columbus at No. 28, Cassius at No. 29, and Zenouska at No. 40, for instance.
     
  8. Matt Black

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  9. David Lamb

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    Makes sense now. Sorry, I have not ever read Private Eye. Thanks Matt.
     
  10. windcatcher

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    Well, just call me an ignorant american and I'll go stick my head in the sand for 5 seconds:laugh:

    It doesn't hurt too much to get dressed down over a false statement: I think I never realized there was a difference between the Commonwealth and the UK til now: So often both are mentioned in writings pertaining to various events in history.....so I associated them as together. While the countries which make up the Commonwealth may be autonomous (I hope I'm using that term correctly..... I'm on a learning mission so correct me if I'm wrong) still it sounds like they each are under the crown, of Queen Elizabeth. From what I read, Her title differs a little over each country, and her oath is different pertaining to each: The separation of the countries is significant enough and the influence of the crown over each of enough significance that sometimes her support of one issue in one part of the world as the Crown of that country presents issues to the interests of another country for which she is also the crown monarchy.

    Interestingly, her royal garb differs also in a striking but regal contrast in her official duties with each 'state'. :love2:

    You Brits et al, really have a very interesting and involved history and heritage: Methinks one could study it for a lifetime and never know the half of it. I'm a too late starter.......alas!:tongue3:
     
  11. David Lamb

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    Not sure which post you were replying to, Windcatcher, but if it was mine, rest assured I was not trying to "dress anyone down", just replying to C4K's OP. You'd laugh at my scanty knowledge of U.S. history, politics, etc.
     
  12. windcatcher

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    Ha, ha,haha! I visited that site. Guess I could google up the publication..... but I'm too old and, as you've already seen, and I've admitted in a sense..... there can be enough facts to confuse me!:laugh:
    :tongue3: You really had me going with that "Queen Brenda"..... I was a 'huh?'
     
  13. windcatcher

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    Really, brother Lamb,

    No offense here....and the challenge didn't come from you: More from the OP which brought a question to the forefront of my consciousness regarding a statement I posted in some uncertainty...... but in part for its 'awe' power. Not that I would have minded.

    I post too many words sometimes when my mind is flying faster than my fingers on the keyboard, and somethings are either not thought out well.... or my out put reflects the inadequacy or misinterpretation of input.

    We Americans are not always certain of our own history, which you may gather from reading these threads and the debates: (Oh, could I open Pandora's box on this one.) One which is a mild dispute is recognizing the first settlements in North America. Example: The importance of the Pilgrims was so empthasized when I was young, that I think many contemporarys think they were the first to settle: My birthplace, Virginia and its history indicates that Jamestown was established 15 years before, in 1607. (wc....trying to imagine what it would be like to have lived then and ever since and follow the progression) Few know that Pensacola, Fl was the first settlement in 1559..... but it was abandoned a couple of years later: St. Augustine, Fl, was established a few years later, 1565, and some make claim that it was the first settlement based on the abandonment of the colony at Pensacola: St. Augustine, Fl, does hold the title for the first hospital in the Americas....if memory serves me.

    God bless!:wavey:
     
  14. windcatcher

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    Back to C4K's question:

    Getting out my math skillls:

    1/4 is to 1/6 as
    3/12 is to 2/12. As the latter figure (which I used) is smaller than the former which I've documented.... I did not exaggerate but did mis-identify it as the UK.
    Also, perhaps, unintentional but misleading is the implication of the power and control of the Queen over these regions.

    Thanks again! I appreciate the research it provoked.
    I shall return! :)
     
  15. Matt Black

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    Back to Brenda's constitutional role; the last time she did anything significant was when she orchestrated a postponement of the 2001 general election: Blair wanted it held in early May and we were right in the midst of an agricultural crisis caused by a foot-and-mouth disease epidemic. Brenda made it crystal clear to Blair that she thought an election at that point would be 'inappropriate'. Blair duly took her advice and postponed it by a month or so (he still won).
     
  16. 4His_glory

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    Ah Yes the Falkland Is. Where I live these do not exist. In there place are las Islas Malvinas, which of course are part of Argentina.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  17. EdSutton

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    Guess you are too young to remember 1982 where Queen Elizabeth II and Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher echoed the late Queen Victoria.

    "We are not amused."

    In fact, they were even more than a mite annoyed, and the British Lion stepped on Señor Mickey Mouse's tail, for a bit, if I recall!

    Uh- I seem to recall the United Kingdom winning that little war, I believe, when Brigade General Mario Menéndez (Argentina), surrendered to Major General Jeremy Moore (United Kingdom) and almost 10,000 POWs were taken, and ignominiously shipped back and repatriated to Argentina, with over 4,000 put on one ship (the SS Canberra), alone.

    Sure sounds like "The Falkland Islands" still exist, to me.

    Ed
     
    #17 EdSutton, Aug 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2008
  18. EdSutton

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    First settlement? How about the native Americans? And the town of Acoma, NM, around for 1000 years. Does it count? Just wonderin'! ;)

    St. Augustine (1565) is the first permanent and oldest European settlement and extant European founded city in the US.

    Just wonderin' if you happen to know, without looking it up, what is the second oldest extant European city in the US?

    First Hint. It was founded in 1607.

    Second Hint. It's not Jamestown. :thumbs:

    Ed
     
    #18 EdSutton, Aug 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2008
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I agree, the Irish also do not acknowledge the Falklands :).

    Las Islas Malvinas, Argentine!

    Great lyrics HERE
     
  20. Matt Black

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    Ed, Santa Fe?
     

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