By their fruit you will know them

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Nicholas25, Dec 30, 2006.

  1. Nicholas25

    Nicholas25
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    I stole this from the modesty thread.

    By their fruit you will know them.


    This verse is speaking of false prophets. So you have quoted it out of context.


    Gentlemen; is it not fair to say that you will know Christians and not just false prophets, by their consistent fruit? Obviously I am not talking about a bad day or moment but an extended period of time.
     
  2. Scarlett O.

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    Yes. Jesus, Himself, said in that very same passage (Matthew 7:15-23) that "a good tree will produce good fruit and a bad tree will produce bad fruit."

    I think it is as you say.....the bad day every now and again doesn't count, but the persistance of the Christian will bear out good fruit.

    Peter is a good example. He had some bad days....some really bad days. Jesus said to him, "Get thee behind me, Satan!" He took his eyes off of Jesus and sank in the water. Finally, he cursed and denied that he even knew Jesus.

    But he also made a great confession. And he walked on the water with Jesus. And he performed miracles. And he preached mightily and he wrote boldy.

    My favorite story about Peter is when he marched straight up to that meeting place where there were Jewish men and Jewish officials that he had previously ran from and he marched straight up there to preach to them.

    I see him as a cross between Billy Graham and Mr. T!!!! :applause: :thumbs:

    I love it when the beggar man is asking for alms and Peter said, "Brother, I ain't go no money, but what I do have.....you're about to get some of it!!!"

    Oops....I'm chasing a rabbit!! :godisgood:

     
  3. Nicholas25

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    The funny thing is Mr T speaks on TBN from time to time. He's hard core, he hasn't got caught up in the name it and claim it fluff.
     
  4. gb93433

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    People that follow the false teachers are people who are somewhat spiritual but not enough to know the difference. The Mormons are building their false temples on the people who mostly come from the RCC and SBC. Some of the the TV gurus are getting their money from people who have a spritual sense but not enough to know the difference.
     
    #4 gb93433, Dec 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2006
  5. gerald285

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    Hello Nicholas25,
    I agree with you in part. The passage is speaking of the person who in a daily practice has bad fruit. (sin) Also in the context of the text it is dealing with false prophets but the standard would be no different for the average believer. We are all called to go and tell so in that sence we are all His prophets. One way to tell a false Christian is that there sin does not shock others. The reason is that they practice the sin on a regular bases. Another way is that it does not shock them. There is no resonable evidence of remorce when they sin. Yes they may joke about it, but true remorse and repentance is absent. Finally the sin will continue. Their fruit is bad and they are false professors according to the Lord. And finally we can know them according to the Lord.
    Good topic. :thumbsup:



     
  6. EdSutton

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    Good topic maybe, but bad leap!
    By what possible standard do you make this leap, in effect adding to the Word of God something it does not actually say?

    Ed
     
  7. LeBuick

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    I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what this means??? What Jesus is saying is the fruit is the product of the tree. If the tree is bad the fruit will be bad. If the tree is good the fruit will be good. This is because everything that is in the fruit came from the tree. There is nothing in the fruit the tree didn't give it. You can equate this to many things in life as it is a solid principle.

    Isn't false prophet an oxymoron?

    I must be confused by your position;

    Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

    The question is what do you consider the fruit. It has nothing to do with dress I agree.

    Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
     
  8. Helen

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    I think if we put the passage about trees and fruits in Matthew 7 back into context, we will see it explains itself quite well.

    Keeping in mind that the verses and divisions we have are not part of the original text, go back to verse 13:
    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
    Watch out for false prophets. they come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.

    "False prophets" are indirectly defined in that verse by the reference to 'sheep's clothing.' Sheep's clothing is NOT what a sheep wears (they do not have clothing), but what they provide -- wool. And woolen clothing, for the shepherd, is what is most available and therefore what he wears. Be careful of those who pose as shepherds of the flock but whose hearts are bent on destruction of the flock -- these are the leaders who will lead through the wide gate, and destruction is the fruit of their teachings. The results of what they teach will show what and who they really are as well as the falseness of their teachings.

    The rest of the passage simply amplifies that:

    Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit youwill recognize them.
    Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

    These men claim to be church leaders. They prophesied in the name of Christ and drove out demons in the name of Christ. But Christ does not acknowledge these leaders. They were the false prophets who led into the wide gate which Jesus warned of.

    Watch the VERY NEXT words Jesus says (which again have been separated from this part of the text by men's 'titles'):

    Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and thew inds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.

    There are a number of ministries which are going to fall with a great crash, for they are not built on the Word of God. They heard, but did not obey, but rather went the way of men to 'build the ministry.'

    This entire passage, which starts with 'enter through the narrow gate' is, after that warning to individuals, a warning about false teachers and false ministries.
     
  9. blackbird

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    As the late, great Dr. Adrian Rogers would say

    "They'll topple like a house of cards!"

    Excellent post, Sister Helen!!

    Happy New Year to you and yours!!!

    Bro. David
    aka Blackbird
     
  10. LeBuick

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    I agree Helen, great post.
     
  11. Brice

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    This is why I always look for your posts', you always go back to the word. Great post. :thumbs:
     
  12. Scarlett O.

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    This is my favorite part of BB.......learning something new or looking at it in a way that you never have before.
     
  13. gerald285

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    Hello Ed,
    actually it does. You may not yet see it but it does say hhat I said. The passage does not spell out that He is speaking only of a certain group. It is no different then to say that He is only speaking about the Pharasees. Using A false prophet is anyone who propagates falsely. This board as any board has some false prophets on it who are not preachers. They are simply regular people who want to get others to hold their views. Nothing has been added to scripture.

     
  14. Oasis

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    I agree with Brice's assessment, LeBuick's agreement, and blackbird's "excellent post Sister Helen?" regarding your post Helen. Your insight always brings the subject back to center; that being Scripture.:thumbs:

    "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."-1 John 2:19 NIV

    blackbird
    AMEN blackbird:)

    God prefers
    FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT
    over RELIGIOUS NUTS
    -Adrian Rodgers
     
    #14 Oasis, Jan 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2007
  15. EdSutton

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    Helen, I agree with a couple of others, here. Great Post! Oh yeah, Happy New Year, everyone!

    Ed
     
  16. EdSutton

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    I'm going to go over some of this basically sentence by sentence , for I simply do not agree with all you have posited. This is not to say that many, if not all these general 'principles' are not good ideas, but rather that they are not canonized 'precepts'. (If one fails to understand this difference, may I refer one to a dictionary.) As to what I see or don't see, I suggest that there is a substantail amount of 'summary judgment', even here. For some unknown reason, there never seems to be a dearth of such on the BB, somehow. :rolleyes:
    By what standard? The passage simply says: 15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. " (Matt.7:15-20 - NKJV) The 'summary statement' beginning with "therefore" refers to the preceeding verses. This passage is the only place in Scripture where "by their fruits" is ever found, and is is found here twice in v. 16 & 20.
    Sorry, but it does. Read the verses. It does not even imply that the meaning is intended to be any broader. We are back to the 'precept v. principle' division, in a way. This may be a completly valid application, and I would agree that it may well be, as it is no doubt a good principle, but it does not follow that that is what Jesus said, for He simply did not say that. Perhaps some are comfortable with putting words in the mouths of Jesus and Scripture writers; I am simply not one of those, for I seem to recall something about adding to and taking away from the words of Scripture.
    I am not aware that anyone has posted that this was speaking of the Pharisees, at all, but I could have missed it, I grant.
    I'm not exactly sure what you were intending to write here. However, I believe that if the word 'using' were not here, it would make sense, and I would not disagree with this.
    Perhaps you feel comfortable labeling someone with whom you may disagree, summarily as a "false prophet". I am, again, more reluctant to do so. There is a tremendous difference between one who is somewhat unlearned, or simply is mistaken, from one who is deliberatly attempting to deceive. This is what Jesus was speaking of with the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' analogy. Like the fable of Aesop, the intent here was deception, not merely with being wrong.
    I've already addressed this, above. My purpose above here is only to inform, correct and instruct. No more; no less.

    Ed
     
    #16 EdSutton, Jan 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2007
  17. DeeJay

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    I don's think that being called to go and tell makes you a prophet. There is more to it then that.
     
  18. DeeJay

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    Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

    The subject is prophets.

    If you can judge somebody "Not Christian" because they have bad fruit. Then we all can be judged not Christian because we all have bad fruit.
    In the other post the BAD FRUIT was immodist dress. Maybe your bad fruit is dirty thoughts about people who are immodistly dressed. Why are they not Christian because of their bad fruit and your bad fruit is given a pass.

    We all have sins some more hidden then others, but all there. And one sin is not worse then the other as they all reap the same punishment.
     
  19. Helen

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    Just a note about Psalm 14, which was quoted by DeeJay in relation to fruits. The Psalm is NOT talking about all men everywhere. PLEASE read it in context:

    THE FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART, "THERE IS NO GOD."
    THEY are corrupt, THEIR deeds are vile;
    there is no one who does good.

    The Lord looks down from heaven on the sons of men
    to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.

    All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt;\
    there is no one who does good, not even one.

    WILL EVILDOERS NEVER LEARN--
    THOSE who devour my people as men eat bread
    and who do not call on the Lord?

    This Psalm is talking about the fool who denies God; the evildoers who prey on other people. Here 'the sons of men' is identified, just as 'sons of God' is identified as believers in other parts of the Bible.

    Taking this Psalm out of context is one of the problems I have had with some theologies who present it as talking about all people. That is not what it is doing. It clearly identifies those to whom it is referring -- those who deny God's very existence. These are the same people who, in Romans 1, by suppressing the truth all creation speaks of -- the character of God -- feel God's wrath poured out on them. This is NOT all people.

    -------------

    Thanks for the support on the previous post, folks. For several years I was the deaf interpreter for, and then part of the congregation of a marvelous pastor in Fair Oaks, California (Pastor Derek Matsunaka) who kept putting things back in context until it became ingrained in us to do the same, always.
     
  20. DeeJay

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    My bad.

    How about this one

    Or

    I am pretty sure of the ALL in that one.



    My point being that we can not point to somebodys short skirt and say that they are not saved because of their sin. When we all have sin and no one sin is worse then the other.
     

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