Bygone Preachers: Who was Calvinist; who was Arminian?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Abiyah, Nov 25, 2002.

  1. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    Of the well-known preachers of the past,
    who among them was Calvinist and who
    was Arminian? I ask regarding all those
    now considered of the long-ago past--
    Billy Sunday, Jonathan Edwards, etc.

    Also, what was the name of the politician/
    preacher who ruled in England for a time?
     
  2. KenH

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    Calvinists - Jesus, the apostles, Augustine, John Calvin, George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, John Gill, James Petigru Boyce, Charles Spurgeon, B.H. Carroll - to name a few.

    Arminians - Charles Finney, Billy Sunday - to name a few. I'll let others who are sympathetic to this viewpoint fill in more.

    Ken
     
  3. ScottEmerson

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    Post deleted for violation of posting rules. If you would like to word your questions in another fashion, you may resubmit it.

    [ November 26, 2002, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  4. Abiyah

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    I am sorry, but my question is intended not only
    to gather facts but to gather opinions regarding
    who was thought or known to be Calvinist or
    Arminian. Please Do Not Turn This Thread Into
    Another Typical Argument! Please let people
    have their opinions and let it go.

    This is certainly not to deride, but I seriously
    wonder if you would have been comfortable or
    uncomfortable if someone had written that our
    Lord was an Arminian preacher. I thank you in
    advance forr your answer. 8o)

    [ November 26, 2002, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
  5. KenH

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    Scott,

    Would you not say that Jesus taught non-Calvinism? If not, they why are you a non-Calvinist? Are you saying you would willfully teach something that Jesus did not teach?

    Ken

    [ November 26, 2002, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  6. Monergist

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    Most of the "great" preachers of the last 100-150 years have not been calvinist, although there are a few exceptions: Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Donald Barnhouse, BB Warfield, Alexander Maclaren, J. Greshan Machen, John Murray, Francis Schaeffer, and others (though some of these might be considered teachers rather than preachers.) BTW, does anyone know if G. Campbell Morgan would have been considered a Calvinist?

    If you look back further than 150 years, all the way until the beginning of the Reformation, you'll find many more calvinists than arminian.

    BTW, Scott, Jesus and the apostles teaching was the same as that which calvinism affirms. Deal with it.
     
  7. Abiyah

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    Okay. Let's just archive this. I don't want any
    part of putting people down for their beliefs.
     
  8. Jim1999

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    Timothy:

    G.Campbell Morgan was considered to be a Calvinist, but he believed that election was based on the foreknowledge of God rather than a preselection at God's choice.

    This was a common theology among many Baptists between 1850-1950, but still considered to be Calvinist.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. Jacob

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    How could a guy believe this and still be considered a Calvinist?

    Billy Graham, Mardecai Ham: Non Calvinsists.

    Jacob.
     
  10. KenH

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    There are degrees of Calvinism just as there are degrees of Arminianism, etc.

    Ken
     
  11. Jim1999

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    Jacob,

    A goodly number in my age bracket and slightly older, adhered to this concept.....that God elected because He foreknew who would accept.

    Consider that many Baptists came out of a modified Arminian theology to begin with. It is also a common theology among the Plymouth Brethren movement; ie: Darby, Scofield.....G.Campbell Morgan was ordained Congregationalist and also pastored a Presbyterian Church (Calvinist) in the USA for a number of years.

    Men like M.R. DeHaan and Charles E. Fuller taught this concept and all considered themselves Calvinists. I must say, that not so much emphasis was put on the clergy in my time to declare oneself a Calvinist or Arminian. Rather, the thought of being an Arminian was virtually out of the question.

    I am speaking anecdotally. I know that theological texts have always fostered a strong Calvinist viewpoint, but then, we got most of our theological teachings from the great Calvinist theologians of another time, particulary the teachers from Princeton, Yale, Cambridge and the great Dutch and German schools.

    It is only in the last 30 years that so many Baptist have come out so soundly in the Calvinist camp,,,the TULIP camp.

    There is more to Baptist life than what we tend to read in the text books. The order of the decrees have always been a form of theological gymnastics until recent years.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    Okay. In line with dear Abiyah's question, I have a question. Does anybody know who between Scoffield and Thompson would be electionist, out and out ?
    I am looking for a good study Bible but John Mc'Arthur uses just the NKJV now and I am strictly KJV.
    Appreciate answers.

    God bless y'all.
     
  13. Eric B

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    This is a tired cliché already, uttered like it is mentioned in the Bible verbatim. Certain teachings that Calvinism shares with the rest of Christendom were Jesus' and the apostles' teaching (That Jesus is the Savior, for example), but the ones that distinguish it are interpretations of Jesus and the apostles. Augustine was the first to systematically set forth those peculiar interpretations.

    [ November 29, 2002, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Eric B ]
     
  14. Rev. G

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    Abiyah:
    It may help to ask about specific preachers. There are so many from the last few hundred years alone.
    [​IMG]

    Billy Sunday - semi-Pelagian ("Arminian")
    Jonathan Edwards - Reformed ("Calvinist")
    George Whitefield - Reformed
    John Wesley - semi-Pelagian
    Charles H. Spurgeon - Reformed
    Charles G. Finney - Pelagian (heresy)
    John Knox - Reformed
    Theodore Frelinghuysen - Reformed
    the Tennents - Reformed
    Samuel Davies - Reformed
    Asahel Nettleton - Reformed
    R. A. Torrey - semi-Pelagian
    D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones - Reformed
    Francis Schaeffer - Reformed
    Billy Graham - semi-Pelagian
    D. James Kennedy - Reformed
    John MacArthur - Reformed

    Are you thinking of Oliver Cromwell in England?
     
  15. Abiyah

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    Rrev G!! Wow, it is good to see your name up in
    lights! Well, Ii guesss it's not exactly in lights, but
    it is up, anyway!

    Thank you for the list!
     
  16. Pastork

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    Rev.G,

    I agree with your assessment of Finney as a Pelagian heretic rather than an Arminian.

    Pastork
     
  17. rsr

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    Glad someone finally got to John Wesley.

    However, the term "semi-Pelagian" reveals its own bias; I'm sure even those who would accept the Arminian label don't consider they have truck with Pelagians.

    I think it was Cromwell Abiyah was referring too also, although he wasn't a minister or preacher. The Baptists were big supporters of the Parliamentary side, at least until they figured out that the Presbyterians had a little different view of religious liberty than the Baptists did.

    [ December 07, 2002, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  18. Abiyah

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    THank you, RSR; I think you are right.
     
  19. Pete Richert

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    Long before choosing any preference on my part, I found that many of the writers (and or preachers of the past) who really moved me turned out to be calvinist in sotiereology (did I spell that right). Guys like Luther, Spugeon, Augstine, Edwards and etc. The same goes for today, Hafemann, O'Brien, Mounce, McArthur. Indeed, I can't even really name many arminians. Oh, Chuck Smith at Calvery Chapel is Arminian, and I believe David Cloud from Way of Life ministries is not a calvinist, though neither of these do I find that inspiring.
     
  20. Siegfried

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    I can confirm that he's not a Calvinist, and that he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same post as the others who've been discussed.
     

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