Called

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by TheOliveBranch, Feb 18, 2003.

  1. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have just heard, after being saved for 17 years, that men are not "called" into the ministry. I was told that they receive the "call" from the Lord "to go".

    If they are not called, then are they "appointed"? or what?

    Should we train our sons, school them, send them to school, and college to be "trained"?

    I know that the local church "sends" men out, or am I misinformed on this also?
     
  2. JamesJ

    JamesJ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been wondering just how someone knows that they've received this "call", and how someone knows that they've received "a word from the Lord" about something.

    I hear this all the time but can't say I know anyone who can explain it. I've asked my pastor to explain it but he gave no answer.

    Would any pastor or missionary like to give a testimony? It would be a big help.
     
  3. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you check the requirements of an Elder in 1 Timothy 3, you will find no mention of a "call". I don't wonder why. :rolleyes:
     
  4. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Messages:
    2,302
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is indeed a Call, maybe the reason the Pastor didn't explain it was that it is different according to each individual case. I will never forget mine. I feel it is as much a call as when I received Christ as my Saviour.
    Murph
     
  5. ezrider

    ezrider
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    a call..kinda like when you know your saved...
     
  6. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Men receive a 'call ' from the Holy Spirit to preach much like when the Lord wants US to do something and the Holy Spirit nudges us. The Lord ALWAYS lets us know what we need to do to be in the center of His will.

    Once a young man has been 'called' by God to preach, he then should go on to receive training at a Bible college or seminary.

    In our church, preachers are not "sent out". When they have been 'called' by God to preach and trained; they are ordained so they are ready to go out. We cannot, as a church, send them anywhere, it is up to God to call them where He wants them to be.

    I've heard many preachers say, "If you would be happy doing ANYTHING else besides preaching; then you have not been 'called' by God to preach."

    BTW, IMO, young ladies are 'called' to be pastor's wives the same way preachers are 'called' to preach or missionaries are 'called' into the field. How else would we know what God wanted us to do with our lives?

    God still speaks to us today..we just need to listen. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  7. ezrider

    ezrider
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    0
    just one more thought..much like a civilian call..
    example a mortician..euuuwwwwww not me !any thing to do with blood ..nope..police..nope chicken..see i believe all are called to a specific task in life ..if we'll listen...good thought Iab#16
     
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    To me, the haggle over the existence of a "call" to ministry is much ado about nothing. 1 Tim 3 says if you desire the office of overseer, you desire a good thing. If you have a desire, meet the qualifications, and if your church approves you, then you are called.

    When most people speak of a "call," they are speaking of a desire to preach. I wouldn't get hung up over the word.

    However, I do believe that God works this formally through the church. Contrary to one opinion here stated, the church does have the authority to send one out and indeed that is all you see in the NT. You do not see unsent missionaries. The church ordains and sends someone to minister.
     
  9. Padre Bob

    Padre Bob
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am of the opinion that if God shows me a need and gives me the ability to meet that need, that constitutes a call. If God shows me a need that I am unable to meet but gives me the desire to meet that need and also provides the means to acquire whatever abilities are necessary to meet the need, that also constitutes a call.
     
  10. Siegfried

    Siegfried
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    0
    I disagree that this is much ado about nothing. Fundamentalism has been done much damage by those who claim divine authority for their inner feelings. I see no normative passages in Scripture that necessitate a visible, audible, or even internal "call" from God. I do see a plain statement that a desire to serve in church leadership is a noble desire, and by implication should be pursued.

    I will concede that what many people mean by "call" is essentially equivalent to the inward recognition of a desire. Nevertheless, the form of the public expression of this concept is important. Many men have gained authority wrongfully through a dramatized "call" story who had little ability to minister the Word and in some cases have failed miserably to meet the biblical qualifications.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Siegfried,

    I agree with your point. But I don't think addressing "the call" per se is the right approach. I think we address the bad theology that allows such a misdefinition of the call. I think the call is a legitimate working of God in the human heart through the means I described above. If people depart from those means, then I reject the idea that they have been called.
     
  12. Siegfried

    Siegfried
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pastor Larry,

    The only reason I would continue to disagree with you is that I believe using "call" language that is not biblically warranted propagates the bad theology.

    If pastors would just say, "I'm a pastor because I had a desire to minister to people through the Word of God," rather than saying "I was called by God" we would help eliminate a lot of the experience based theology.

    We might also encourage younger Christians to cultivate a desire to minister rather than waiting for some mystical call.

    We can debate whether the presence of a desire in one's heart is a manifestation of a divine call, but why should we? Why not just use the biblical terminology?
     
  13. ruthigirl

    ruthigirl
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow! These are some great points that you guys are bringing out. I often wondered how to answer people as to why I knew that I wanted to marry a preacher. [​IMG]
     
  14. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Heard that EVERYBODY is called to minister, just gifted by the Spirit differently.

    My call was to salvation. God's Spirit can and does gift me and use me, for which I give glory to His name!

    BTW, "the need never constitutes the call"
     
  15. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2002
    Messages:
    4,254
    Likes Received:
    0
    As best as I can recall there are only three instances in the N.T. that can rightly be termed as being a "call."

    The first, is when the Lord spoke to Saul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1-9). The second, when the Holy Spirit directed the church at Antioch by saying "Now Separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them" (Acts 13:2, NKJV). The third is the "Macedonian Call" whereby the Holy Spirit superintended, by means of a vision, the direction in which Paul was to carry the Gospel into Asia Minor (Acts 16:6-10).

    The first of these "calls" was Saul's call unto salvation (which I maintain that every believer is called unto salvation) and Apostleship (Acts 9:1-9). The Lord Jesus spoke to Saul (Paul) in an audible voice. Have any modern pastors heard the audible voice of Christ directing them into the ministry? I think not.

    The second "call" was the work of the Holy Spirit speaking to certain prophets at Antioch in order to direct the church to send Paul and Barnabas out as missionaries to the gentiles (Acts 13:1-3). Again, here we read that the Holy Spirit said, to these prophets, "Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul..." (Acts 13:2). Has the Holy Spirit spoken in an audible voice to any modern pastor directing him into ministry? I don't think so.

    The third "call" again was by means of the Holy Spirit speaking to Paul through a vision (Acts 16:6-10). Have any modern pastors had visions from the Holy Spirit directing them into ministry? I doubt it.

    Additionally, the most compelling part of this N.T. investigation is that none of these "calls" has anything to with someone serving as a pastor. Likewise, they revolve around the Apostle Paul. I must point out that neither I nor anyone reading this message board is the Apostle Paul.

    Finally, the most direct passages of Scripture that addresses the pastorate and the qualifications for the position are 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9. There is no "calling" expressed in the 1 Timothy passage. The Bible speaks of a man's desire to serve as such. Likewise, Titus is instructed to "appoint elders in every city" (Titus 1:5). Here we see that Paul commanded Titus to appiont elders in the churches in every city. There is no indication of a "calling" by God of these men. Titus was to identify them using the list of qualifications and appoint them.

    I try to base all of my actions upon the solid rock of the Word of God and not on feelings or experience. I agree that if we would simply use the terminology of the Bible we would be making great strides in moving away from "Experiential Theology" toward sound Biblical doctrine and theology. The words we use have meaning and they do matter.

    One last thing that I just noticed: No one (except Pastor Larry and I don't quite agree with his take on the issue) on this thread who has posted in support of a "call" to the pastorate has used a single verse of Scripture to support their stance. It is all based on opinion and feelings/experience. What's that saying? :eek: :confused: :eek:

    [ February 20, 2003, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]
     
  16. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Messages:
    2,302
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  17. FearNot

    FearNot
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2002
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since attending church since birth, attending a SBC college (at the time), and attending Seminarian I have known many people answering a "call." Some I saw as genuine, and some I had questions about who "called" them. There is a saying I have heard that I feel felt some people, some of which have admitted it to me, that saying is, "called by mom, answered by dad."

    When I first felt lead to attend seminary and go into a particular ministry, I basically had the same reaction as Moses in Exodus 3:11a "Who am I..." Followed by 2 years of, "You have the wrong guy Lord, You must be mistaken, No, not me'" etc. After accepting God's leading I not only felt relieved, but happy about the "call."

    I believe the term is just one of those words that we have used (from Paul's calling, as BB II has pointed out) to make things clearer to self and other believers. Personally by way of the Great Commission I feel we are ALL "called" into service, just not all are "called" to preach/teach. We have to remember that God will never point us to a ministry to which we are not qualified per Scripture requirements or to which He will not empower us. [​IMG]
     
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wouldn't argue with that. I think you and I are in basic agreement here. My only contention is that there is something that "sets apart" a man for the work of vocational ministry. What is that? I believe it is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit on that man's life, putting in him a desire that overwhelms all other desires. Call it what you want (no pun intended).

    I think what Bob says is right on ... that all have been called to minister. But not all have been gifted to minister vocationally. But there are some very gifted men who are not ministers. They can preach the socks off many pastors (as if we wanted to see their bare feet). They can do the work of the pastorate very adequately but they, with godly conviction, are content to do something else. I would say that man has not been called, whatever you want to say about "call."

    I believe we address bad theology at the level of ideas, not necessarily at the level of words we use for it. I think there is value in precise language and certain terminology. But words are words; they are simply symbols for things and we must be careful not to invest too much or too little in them.

    I honestly, believe it or not, have no strong opinion about this matter. I think you (Siegfried, Bob, et al from that side) and I agree. The word "call" is not one that I am hung up on to use or not use.
     
  19. Siegfried

    Siegfried
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for your experience. I take note of the fact that you offer no Scripture for your theology. Therefore, I will accept your experience with the same authority that I give to those who share their experience of being healed by Benny Hinn.

    For the record, your use of James 1 to rebuke Bibleboy is worse than poor exegesis. It is a deliberate mis-handling of the Word of God by ripping the verse from its context. Your statement is dishonest and reprehensible.
     
  20. Siegfried

    Siegfried
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    0
    We would certainly agree that any good desire in our hearts is a gift from God. On that basis, it seems clear that a desire to pastor is good and must therefore be from God.

    The problem with designating that a call is that there is often an implication that the call/desire to vocational ministry is superior to a call/desire in a believer's heart to serve God in non-vocational ministry. Bob has addressed that issue. It really introduces another topic related to the superiority that some preachers exude about their call, but that is outside the scope of this thread, I suppose.

    My concern is not with those who use the concept carefully, but with the implications of the propagation of the term among those who don't, as this thread demonstrates.
     

Share This Page

Loading...