Calling Separationists...

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Cright, Sep 27, 2004.

  1. Cright

    Cright
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    This is my first post here! [​IMG]

    This question sent me on a google search that lead me here!

    I am attending a non-denominationl baptist church that I've been at for nearly a year, but only a member of for a couple months.

    I have a friend who is very well trained in the bible and can quote just about every passage in the bible and tell you where it's at ect.. you've got the idea right?!

    He was saying that he doesn't like the church I attend because even though our church teaches the same as his, our church doesn't pratice separation or preach against false teachings.

    So I've started paying more attention. This week at my church we were talking about God's purpose for us and reading from Eph 2 and when we got to Vs 8-9 he did stop and say "this will make alot of people mad, because they believe that salvation is a combination effort between God and man" and went on to say that we are saved through faith and not from ourselves, that this is God's gift to use ect...

    This guy is saying that my pastor should go on to say who's doing the false teachigns.. (ie, speak out against Catholics or those who speak in toungs or whoever else). He said we are called to do this, and that there are verses to back this up.

    Please can anyone give me biblical support for this? I need to know where the idea comes from.

    Another example is not associating with (seperating from) ecumenical evangelistic crusades (ie billy graham and the like) due to their alignment with men and churches that do not believe the Word of God.

    I'm not saying that I want to hang out at a Billy Graham event or anything.. I think of those as more of a seekers event, but why not support his quest to peek curiousity in non-believers?

    If you've made it this far (thanks!) please drop in any quotes you can think of!

    Thanks a million! :D

    Carina
     
  2. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    Carina, welcome to the forums. Your friend is correct to a degree. We are to stand against false religions, doctrines, etc., and just because your pastor doesn't necessarily say anything from the pulpit in the form of attack, like many Christians would want him to do, your friend included, doesn't mean that your pastor doesn't stand against such things. It only means he didn't put it in his sermon. Your pastor is accountable to God. He's also accountable to the people he represents, and stating flat that Catholicism is anti-God, or Pentecostalism is incorrect in an inflammatory manner when there may be people there of that faith, can be more detrimental than good. There is a way to preach, still get the point across and not be blatantly offensive. Is it possible that your pastor is doing this?

    AVL1984
     
  3. Bob Colgan

    Bob Colgan
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    Cright,
    I'm sure you will get some good advice from the people on the board. One thing I will say is just because your friend can quote scripture it doesen't make him a mature christian or does it makes him correct. I have known people who could quote scripture and they were way out in left field. And had no fruits of the Spirit at all.
    It's hard to answer with out details but it sounds like your Pastor may be a Calvinist and maybe your friend is a extreme Fundamentalst. I consider my self a fundamenalist and I believe we do need to be seperate from alot of this liberal junk going on IMO But I don't think it needs to be preached from the alter every Sunday. I think it's more important to preach the truth to study God's word that IMO is the way we mature and grow in the grace of are Lord and Savior Jesus Christ not by allways pointing out the wrongs of every other church. I'm sure others will give you more help and Bible ref.


    God Bless

    Bob C
     
  4. superdave

    superdave
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    Awesome first post, start with a bang.

    There are several threads in the fundamental Baptist forum on this site that are discussing or have discussed this issue.

    One is titled John MacArthur, I think there are a couple others. It is a subject that gets discussed often and usually very passionately.

    I know many times these types of labels are put on non-denominational churches, or even Baptist churches that are more contemporary in their style of worship, many times the logic of the argument is, "If the church got to be that big, they must not be speaking the truth, or unbelievers wouldn't be staying there"

    This many times could not be further from the truth. I have found several non-denoms that were very balanced and highly separatist from those that were doctrinally unsound. If your church is associating with ministries or denominations that either do not preach the truth of God's Word, or are interpreting certain areas of truth incorrectly, which in many cases would include catholics and charismatics, than your friend is correct, there is a problem with their stand on separation. Billy Graham is an example of one who while his docrtine may be rather orthodox and Evangelical, the ecumenical nature of his practice causes problems. He does not dissociate himself from those who do not preach salvation by faith alone. I don't have my Bible program handy at the moment on this computer, but will look up some of the verses we have discussed on the other threads and I am sure we will get some more input on this.

    I would tell you to be even more careful when evaluating churches that practice separation strongly, IMHO, there are probably many more pitfalls in that environment than in any non-denom I have seen.

    Especially watch out for Baptists :D
     
  5. superdave

    superdave
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  6. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    Cright,

    Your “friend” may not be your friend, and he surely does not sound to me as though he is a friend of the Gospel. Contemporary Baptist doctrine is, on some important points, in direct conflict with the doctrines of the early church. Which teaching is really the correct, Biblical teaching? Even among Baptists, there is a wide range of teachings. The Lutheran church teaches what it does based on a very scholarly view of the Bible, and on many points they believe differently than do Baptists. The same is true of the other main-line denominations.

    I was the senior pastor of an interdenominational inner-city church for six years. Our pastoral staff included ministers from several different denominations because we were ministering mostly to Christians who had fallen into very severe sin, and we needed ministers who understood the theological background of those we were ministering to so that we didn’t need to convert them to Baptists before we could communicate with them. And more importantly, we employed the ministers that the Holy Spirit led to us, regardless of their denomination.

    We did not employ a Catholic priest, but we did have Roman Catholics fellowshipping with us. None of them ever took a rosary out of their pocket, but they did attend our Bible studies. Was their doctrinal strife? Not nearly as much as one finds in many Baptist churches. Indeed, doctrinal strife was virtually non-existent. We all got along beautifully. We held church services seven days a week and took our evening meals together. And it was very enjoyable sharing the love of Christ with each other knowing that we were Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians, not to mention those from the Assemblies of God, Church of God, Christian Missionary Alliance, Church of the Nazarene, Pentecostal Holiness, and other groups.

    Strife does not come from doctrinal differences—strife comes from an arrogant, haughty, conceited, self-righteous pride in the name of theological correctness.

    Why did we get along so well? Maybe it was because of the quality of food that we served for dinner, but more likely it was because the Gospel was preached in a loving and powerful manner that convicted the sinners and brought them to repentance and salvation.

    During those six years, and many subsequent years, I learned that it was very foolish for anyone to be so arrogant, haughty, and conceited as to believe that he is right and everyone else is wrong. The Scriptures are subject to interpretation, and the interpretation of the Scriptures has changed and evolved during the past 2,000 years. I’m a Baptist, but that does not mean that my beliefs are necessarily correct. For all I know, God is a Lutheran [​IMG] .

    1 Corinthians 13

    1. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
    2. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
    3. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
    4. Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
    5. does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
    6. does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
    7. bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    8. Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
    9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
    10. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
    11. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    12. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
    13. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
    (NKJV)
     
  7. Cright

    Cright
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    [​IMG]

    What wonderful responces! ..so quick too! [​IMG]

    I made a small error... oops!
    The church I go to is independant Baptist! Not non-denominational. I'm always correcting others who say this because we're called Woodside Bible. But it is a Baptist doctrine. Now I'm correcting myself! haha

    Okay... here's a lil more... I asked one of my friends about it, this was his responce... So now I'm starting to understand where the idea of "seperation" came from.

    With this all said.. I still believe in "speaking the truth in love" and I think that putting down another denom from the pulpit is not a very loving way to speak the truth.

    AVL and Bob - thanks for your posts..
    SuperDave - thanks also for the link...
    Craig - thank also for reminding me of 1 Cor 13! I needed it [​IMG]

    God Bless,
    Carina

    PS.. still very willing to read any further insites! [​IMG]
     
  8. Cright

    Cright
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    Note: forgot to add that I don't think my pastor is either calvinistic or armenian.. but I do believe he is a fundie.. without being a sepretist.

    eek! all these lables! hahah
     
  9. Bob Colgan

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    Cright,

    Is this Pastor a armenian, calvinist, pre trib,
    post trib, mid trib, fundi, neo evangelical, KJVO, KJO preferred, manuscripts T.R. or West Scott & Hort. (JUST KIDDING) yea labels:laugh:

    Bob C
     

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