Calvanism Application

Man chose and then God chose because man chose God.

Does not Scripture tell us you have it backwards?

Isa 43....
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen:

NOW WATCH VERY CLOSE

Where it comes......watch it now...

and the rest.....

What would you lie to change in the verse?

 

C'mon Jarthur, she doesn't want to change the Scripture. She wants to obey it and follow it to the best of her ability. So, don't ask "What would you like to change in the verse" but rather, "Don't you agree that this is what the verse is saying? If not, why/how not?"

 

Spelling police: It's Calvinist. :type:

Carry on..

 

one element will place you in calvinism or outside.

what is election?

 

right, wrong, right.

It didn't. Love never fails....and that would be the point.

ok. But I know of no one that believes this unless it is you.

By Nature he is also holy. You only look at one perfection. God would be unjust if he left man to His own will. It is because of God love that he chose some. That is what the Bible says. There is but one way to see Gods love as pure.

BTW..that would be... CALVINISM.

Because he 1st loved us.

No you but you has said anything about program. However, Gods word addresses predestination. If you don't care with what it says, take it up with God. But I don't think he will change things because you don't like it.

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lets see....

You love you child so much that if they wish to play in the street that has cars going at 60 miles a hour ....then the only way to show love is to let them by letting them have their will.

To me that is not love.

do angels get saved? Men do.....but do angels? Once fallen always fallen?

you got that right.

 

no..

and that would be the point.

 

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Not at all. God uses sin to bring about his glory. Man is still held responsible for it is his sin nature that controls him. Its much like a mouse maze. God places things in our life to turn us. We still have a choice as does the mouse.

How did God harden the heart of pharaoh? He did it by asking pharaoh to do right. God also knew he would not. Now years later pharaoh stands before God. God says..Pharaoh why did you not listen to me? Can Pharaoh say...but God you didn't tell me? Can he say..God you didn't give me a chance? Not at all.

The same is true in the garden. Can Adam say ..."God you only gave me one choice and all the other choices were evil???" Nope

Did God setup the garden? Yes.

Did God setup Adam? You could look at it that way, but he set him up where he would have no excuse.

well..yes Adam. But he still could have killed all mankind at any point. But he did not. This to shows his love and mercy. NO?

You'er free to call it anything you wish. I would not call it entrapment because within Adam before the fall rest a will to say no to sin.

Punishing not only Adam, but also all of Adams race......I agree. BTW..the Bible agrees

ok.

and we are saved by association as well. Is that fair?

The choice is always out there, but man is not able to chose because of sin.

Like this....

Lets say you like the NY Jets. In fact you love the Jets. You are a Jet freak. That is all you talk about...and you have all the Jet stuff all over your office. You drive a Jet green car....and always wear jet green shoes.

Lets say I have tickets to the Jets and the Lions. I offer you one...but only one. Both tickets are on the same day. Both are open games. Because I offer both knowing which one you will take, does that mean I forced them on you? I think not.

You got it now.

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That he is a just God and he hates sin. What does that say to you?

That is what my atheist friend says. Do you believe that as well?

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that is a poor understanding of election. No one is forced into anything.

You have failed to work out each system to its final end. Stick around....we will get there.

I don't agree...but lets say he did. I see no problem...do you?

indeed

We are not told that God saves man because he is made in his image. Please state your source.

The chief end of man is to what?

 

Spelling police: It's Calvinism.

Carry on..

 

Lets put it this way.

A Calvinist would agree with your statement on election.

I would say that I have never came across a REAL agnostic. Most are only dishonest skeptics. I debate athiest all the time. I find it funny that athiest spend so much time attacking something that they claim is not there.

what problem do you...yourself have with Calvinism?

 

Well, I have not read all your post, but the ones I have read, you do indeed take the same old athiest argument I read 20 years ago. It would be nice to see you defend the faith and the Bible from a Christian view.

 

Through salvation you are held responsible for righteousness you didn't commit. You are given the standing of something a righteous man did 2000 years ago. Are you going to complain about that too?

Why? Where did you get your standard of fairness?

Do you have a problem when a murderer is locked up for life? I imagine you don't. So what is the problem when a criminal against God is locked up for eternity which is a just response to his crimes against God

 

Wouldn't you admit that society is pretty messed up? How can we judge true fairness based on something that is so messed up?

First, you don't seem that concerned about fairness here. Why not?

Second, the Bible does say that Jesus died "for the joy that was set before him."

So why do you have a problem with a criminal against God going to hell for eternity? Our sin against God is far worse than our crimes against other man. And with God there is no injustice in the trial system. So it sounds like you have a double standard, and I don't see how that's fair.

But what if he wants to be a murderer? Do you object then?

 

I see both of these things.