Hey friends, I'm pretty well versed on both camps. Theology, proponents, theologians, history, etc. It would help me and maybe everyone else that participates on this forum if you can answer a simple question? Here it is: Are these the only 2 choices for church and theology? For the Reformed camp - Are the Arminians saved? For the Arminian camp - Are the Calvinist lost? Can we be neither and still be saved? I realize we tend to polarize around these 2,and do bible around these theologies. But what was the church before Calvin and Arminius were born? And don't defer to Augustine as the historical prooftext. I'm not anti-calvinistic, nor am I anti-arminianistic. I'm trying to get a better understanding. Don't refer me to someone's book on the subject, because both parties have a tendency promote their camps. I have some Reformed materials, and some Arminian stuff as well. Although, James White does make some good arguements. This isn't an attack on either camp, I just need some further clarification. Thank you. Again, I'm trying to get clariication.