Calvinism, God's Mercy

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. steaver

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    I have many Christian friends. Some are Calvinist and some believe one can lose their salvation. On these points we disagree. But I respect them and love them all dearly, they are wonderful Christian brothers.

    I like reading John Piper, a Calvinist brother in Christ. So I was reading something he said in a sermon titled "The Absolute Sovereignty of God: What is Romans 9 About". In this he said something that enlightened me about Calvinist and this is why I titled this thread Calvinism, God's Mercy.

    Here is an excerpt:

    What caught my attention was the parts I emboldened. I believe Calvinism could be God's way of snapping those Christians out of self-centerness who otherwise could not learn to be God centered any other way. Just something to think about. Notice how John Piper described his life before embracing Calvinism. Personally, I live my life as John does, God centered, yet I did not need Calvinism to do so.

    Just a thought!
     
  2. savedbymercy

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    Calvinism, The Tulip Truth's are the Gospel, at least a major part of it. You reject those Truth's, you reject the Gospel !
     
  3. Moriah

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    Piper says anything that he gave God permission to do… non-Calvinists do not believe that, nor is that what non-Calvinism amounts to believing. What Piper says about giving God permission, that is what a man says that has been brainwashed and led astray into the false doctrine called Calvinism.

    My Master sent people to give the gospel of Jesus Christ; the message came to me; I heard, believed, and did what my Master said to do; how anyone can think that makes man somehow superior is something twisted by the devil.

    To say one is in falseness to say we must obey the Master is beyond insanity. God says, "You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13

    "But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find Him if you look for Him with all your heart and with all your soul." Deuteronomy 4:29

    "…but now God commands all people everywhere to repent." Acts 17:30

    "Repent then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, and times of refreshing may come from the Lord." Acts 3:19

    "…unless you repent, you too will all perish." Luke 13:3

    "Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the Lord, and He will have mercy on him and to our God, for He will freely pardon." Isaiah 55:7

    "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret." 2 Corinthians 7:10

    "Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before the Lord…because you tore your robes and wept in My presence, I have heard you, declares the Lord." 2 Kings 22:19

    So then Piper gets brainwashed and misled by a couple of men.

    God knows all what we will be like even before He created the world. Even before Jacob and Esau did anything good or bad, God knew what was in their hearts; God knew Esau would trade his inheritance for a bowl of soup! In addition, God knew that Jacob would fight for the inheritance. Esau is the first-born, and represents the Jews, the Jews who were chosen first to be God’s people, and a people who did the works God required them to do to be called His people.

    Jacob signifies the Gentiles, the Gentiles did not work, yet they were allowed now to be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. All of Romans 9 is about the first born not being the ones with the promise and inheritance. Just look at how Paul brings up first Ishmael, Abraham’s first-born, and Isaac Abraham’s second child. Calvinism does not understand what Paul is explaining, so the demons give to men doctrines to believe in instead of the truth.

    God is Wisdom and Knowledge. God knows everyone’s heart. God sees and knows things that we do not know. God hardened the Jews to cut them off because of unbelief, so that the Gentiles could be grafted in. However, the Jews can be grafted back in if they do not persist in unbelief, see Romans 11:23.

    Piper spent a semester being manipulated to believe in a twisted mess. That is the story of Calvinists, to be manipulated in to believing a twisted mess. Many people believe they are saved, and had no difficulty getting to that place where they believed they were saved, without even knowing about Calvinism, yet Calvinism is some mind-blowing revelation people think they get sometimes years later. What does that tell you?

    How you could possibly think that it is God centered no longer to believe that Jesus died for all men, as the scriptures say, is to be centered to go against the Word of God.
     
    #3 Moriah, Apr 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2012
  4. steaver

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    If what you say is true, then unless one believes in TULIP one is not saved, for one cannot reject the gospel and be saved. Therefore, by your words here, you condemn all of those here on this board to hell who do not believe in TULIP.

    Is this an accurate observation from me?
     
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Well said Moriah. What is really sad is the brainwashing that Piper underwent in Romans 9 that has not one thing to do with the individual salvation of anyone, contrary to what Calvinists, AND those leaning hard towards Calvinism falsely assume and teach. Sad but true. :thumbsup:


    Notice carefully error in operation. First develop a notion out of thin air concerning free will, a notion that in reality does not exist, then shoot at the paper duck they have created for themselves concerning free will. What a complete and total farse.

    When it comes to the truth of free will and Romans 9, Piper is as lost as a white goose in a snowstorm.
     
    #5 Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2012
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    The free will granted to man by a Sovereign God is only completely free in the realm of morality, the realm of moral praise or blame. If God is going to blame and punish man for first, the formation of an intent, and second for carrying out that intent if nothing forbids that from happening, man must have a choice to do something other than what he chose under the very same set of circumstances. If the will is not free to choose in matters where moral blame and punishment are involved, it is completely UNJUST to consider any blame or punishment if coercion or force are involved. One might as well blame and try to punish a rock for hitting the ground after one kicks it over a cliff as to blame and punish man for intents and action he is not the direct first cause of.

    The fact of blame and punishments directed at sinful man from a Just God, is living and absolute proof, that the will of man is and must be free. When a Just God administers blame and punishment, it is living proof that contrary choice indeed exists and the one blamed or punished is INDEED the first cause of such moral intents and subsequent actions.

    If I were to establish a watershed issue that lies between truth and error, it would be the issue of the freedom of the will. To deny freedom of the will in the realm of morality and morals, is to make an absolute mockery of the Justice and Character of a Holy and Just God in establishing blame or praise for moral intents and subsequent actions.
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    steaver

    There is no evidence of one being saved if they do not believe the Gospel !
     
  8. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    I deny every point of Tulip sbm. Are you saying I am not saved?
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    I am saying anyone who does not believe the Gospel shows no evidence of being saved ! Thats all I need to say !
     
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    Is the gospel Tulip sbm?
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    I already answered that question. Why don't you read my posts !
     
  12. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    I can read, thank you very much, and the way I read you is that you have judged any and all outside of faith in Christ if they deny Tulip. Is that not precisely what you have clearly insinuated sbm?
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    hp

    Ok, so now you know ! I have made that statement many many times, I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ ! If people choose to call it calvinsmor whatever, thats on them !

    I judge anyone who does not believe the Gospel as outside the Faith and that is scriptural Gal 1:8-9
     
  14. savedbymercy

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    The Great Baptist Minister Charles Spurgeon judged Tulip as the Gospel Truth !

    Here are some quotes:



    All I can say to this is Amen and Amen !
     
  15. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    Luther and Spurgeon can say anything they so desire sbm, but you and I are bound to the rules of this forum that prohibit the judging of another's salvation on this forum. You have violated the rules of this forum and as such I have flagged your post, and ask for a moderator(s) to clarify the rules for you since you seem to be unable to read and or comprehend them.
     
  16. DHK

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    We both have read your posts.
    Though HP and I differ on many things we agree on one thing:
    TULIP is not the gospel
    I would go as far as to say that is a heretical statement to make.
    I also do not believe in even one point of TULIP.
    But if you even as remotely infer that I am unsaved for that reason, or question the salvation of HP for the same reason, then perhaps it is your own salvation that you need to look into. Salvation does not rely in a man's theology but in what the Bible teaches:

    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God.
    It does not say: Therefore being justified by TULIP we have peace with God.
    That is heresy, but apparently it is what you believe.
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    Well good, for that is why I post them !

    Yes they are, very integral parts of the Gospel !

    And according to scripture if a man does not believe the Gospel there is no evidence of salvation !

    You will answer to God for that !

    Salvation relies on the Work of Christ alone, What Christ did and accomplish and for whom He accomplished and why is The Gospel in all of it's intricate details found in scripture !

    Now,no one who rejects those Gospel details of the Gospel of Christ, gives proof of salvation ! You can call it Theology or whatever, if one refuses the Gospel, they give not one shred of evidence of being saved !
     
  18. DHK

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    That is true that no man can be saved without the gospel. But TULIP was not invented until more than 1500 years after Christ and the Apostles. I guess all those people before the Reformation were lost. What a joke SBM.
     
  19. steaver

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    Would you be so kind as to share your testimony as to your coming to faith in CHrist? Did you embrace TULIP at that time? Piper says he was saved long before he embraced TULIP, do you think he was unsaved all those prior years?
     
  20. Steadfast Fred

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    If one does a diligent study of the words, "elect" "election" "chose" and "chosen" throughout the Word of God, one will find an interesting thing.

    Nowhere are the Gentiles said to be "elect". Context always reveals the elect to be either the Jewish nation, angels, or Jesus Christ.
     

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