Calvinism more evangelistic?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Nov 26, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    It is a common assault by Arminians (and those who are Arminians but like to call themselves other things) that Calvinists are not evangelistic and that Calvinism dampens evangelistic fervor.

    Do you think that is true?

    It is awful hard to make that case from history, isn't it?

    As a matter of fact the great evangelists have tended to be Calvinistic. With the exception of Moody, Finney, and Wesley, I cannot think of hardly any Arminian evangelists of real renown. One might argue that Billy Graham was an Arminian, and I suppose he was a two pointer most of his life, but he just admitted recently that he never had time to read the Bible like he needed and sat down and read it through in two months and became a 5-point Calvinist.

    It seems to me that almost all other major names in truly Christian history of renown were Calvinists.

    Spurgeon, the father of the mega church, was a thorough Calvinist.

    William Carey, the great Baptist missionary, was a Calvinist.

    Lottie Moon, the woman whose name labels Southern Baptist International Missions, was herself a Calvinist.

    Jonathan Edwards, the most brilliant theological and philosophical mind in American history and the fountainhead of the Great Awakening was a mighty Calvinist,

    George Whitefield the spreader of the Great Awakening fire throughout the colonies was a Calvinist,

    the Pilgrims, though perhaps not evangelists, certainly the bringers of the Gospel to this Continent, were Calvinists,

    the Puritans were Calvinists,

    Matthew Henry, the mighty Commentator whose commentary has touched the lives of multiplied millions was a Calvinist,

    John Bunyan whose Pilgrim's Progress has convinced many to enter the Kingdom was a Calvinist,

    of course Luther, the father of the Protestant Reformation which may be responsible for bringing more people into the Kingdom of God than any other event since Pentecost, was a Calvinist,

    John Wycliffe, the 'Morning Star of the Reformation', was a Calvinist,

    John Huss, the great martyr for the faith, was a Calvinist,

    Augustine was a Calvinist,

    the Apostle Paul was a Calvinist, and the list goes on and on...

    So the argument is utterly ridiculous and really just asinine that says that Calvinists are not evangelistic.
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    If Cavininsts actually taught what they believe, they would be the worst evangelists on earth. If they were to tell everyone they witness to that God has only chosen a few to be saved and they may not be one of them, it would pretty much kill their evangelism.

    (It's also a "common assault" by Calvinists to accuse non cals of denying the sovereignty of God.)
     
  3. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    That is almost exactly what Jonathan Edwards did telling people that God was under no obligation whatsoever to offer to save them- that God was perfectly just to leave them in their damnable state to perish forever- and hundreds came to Christ under his preaching and the Great Awakening was born which brought the colonies, by and large, to Christ.
     
  4. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,135
    Likes Received:
    364
    Yeah - but why would we need to teach that? It has nothing to do with their own view of salvation. Instead, we teach them the Gospel and leave the results to God because it's not us who save them but Him.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    Calvinism rightly understood leads to an obediance of faith,where we desire to obey Jesus when he said go into all the world.
    Knowing that God has ordained to save a multitude we desire to be faithful to occupy until he comes.Lk19.
    Knowing that Jesus seeks and saves sinners..we go to all
    While the system known as calvinism is just bible truth explained, it takes the work of the Spirit to give life. This pre-supposes that the person who brings the gospel is a Spirit filled believer who God will use as a vessel unto honor to speak the words of life to the lost.
    Any person who just believes the theology but is void of the Spirit will not really be effective as a soul winner.There will be no real prayer,or understanding. These people are referred to as the frozen chosen.
    Although God has used a donkey to speak, He mostly does not use lazy or biblically ignorant professors. God has chosen to use weak vessels [us] but he equips us with His word and Spirit to accomplish His purpose.
    Part of what should happen in here is we should sharpen each other so we can give a faithful presentation of the work of Jesus.
     
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    Exactly. I intended to bring this up but you have done a good job doing so. The purer motive for evangelism is love for Christ rather than love for souls.

    Arminianism emphasizes the souls that may perish if we don't go.

    Calvinism emphasizes the glory of a Savior and the privilege to be a part of of it.

    This is an infinitely more Christ-centered and Christ honoring motive. And it has worked throughout history as I think my OP proves.
     
  7. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because it's the truth? (According to Calvinism not me). Why would you withhold the truth from someone? Calvinists claim it's in the Bible. What else from the Bible would you withhold from someone you're witnessing to? Would you neglect to tell someone they might go to hell? According to this logic, you should, because they may not go to hell, therefore why should you tell them about it?
     
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    And he was correct. God is under no obligation to save us. But that is not the same thing as looking someone in the face and saying "God may not have chosen YOU". Try doing that sometime and see how your evangelism goes.
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    But many say that Calvinism IS the gospel. Therefore you are being disobedient if you don't tell them the whole gospel, that only a few have been chosen and it may not be the person you're talking to. It's the truth isn't it?
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    Again...you mis-state the view here;
    God has promised to save a multitude worldwide.....not a few:confused:
    The very fact that God has promised to draw all of the elect savingly and allow them to repent and believe the gospel is a powerful force in evangelism.
    You explain that ;
    Then having shown them that all have sinned you press on them that God will seek and save all that he has purposed to save......so why have you not repented and believe the gospel? Explain how this is a perilous position, and urge them to seek God in prayer that he might have mercy on them.
    Not everyone will come to saving faith..it is a gift from God.
    God grants repentance and faith to His own.....then they repent,and seek God through faith...never because of it.
     
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    You believe that Amy. You believe in election don't you? YOu believe that God elected to saved a few and that the rest are going to hell. That is your Gospel as much as it is ours. You just think that God elected the few based on foreseen faith. It is still God electing a few and leaving the rest to go to hell. You believe that every bit as much as we do. It may not be the person you are talking to. They may not be elected. Do you tell them that? do you tell them- If you don't believe then you are not part of God's elect? According to your logic YOU are supposed to tell them that.
     
  12. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,135
    Likes Received:
    364
    Do we teach about full sanctification before someone is saved? Why or why not?

    Of course I would tell someone that they would go to hell without Jesus because that is part of the Gospel. Sin=hell, Jesus=life. Pretty easy and no need to have to fully explain the effective calling of God, the work of the Holy Spirit and exactly how the rest of their lives will be if they get saved. No, we deal with a child as a child and give them the information they need as they are able to handle it.
     
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    Yes, but Edwards, as did all the other Calvinists, taught Calvinism from the pulpit. People knew where these great men stood on the issue. And yet millions have come to Christ through their ministries.

    Edwards, Whitefield, Spurgeon and all the like taught that God saves whomsoever he wills and yet they were mighty evangelists- the mightiest of evangelists since Paul.
     
  14. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,135
    Likes Received:
    364
    I already told the story here just a day or two ago but my pastor did just that and the man was saved. :)
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,374
    Likes Received:
    728
    That is exactly what Jesus did;
    Jesus knew their hearts, we do not...but we can open these passages to them and show how God opens the heart....or leaves a person to go to second death.
    see here ;
    Be faithful....
     
  16. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,135
    Likes Received:
    364
    Calvinism is not the Gospel but it is instead the explanation of how the Gospel is applied to sinners. Must we talk about justification, propitiation and such and be sure the person dead in their sins understands it before we then lead them in a sinners' prayer?
     
  17. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    Great story and we all ought to do that- seriously. The greats did.

    It awakens some people to the tremendous Sovereignty of God and they see him as he ought to be seen- high and lifted up- and they cry as they ought to cry- woe is me!

    We need more of that!:applause:
     
  18. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    I appreciate your beneficence and kindness to our Arminian brothers and sisters, but the fact of the matter is that Calvinism IS the Gospel in its purest and fuller form.

    One does not have to become a Calvinist to be saved but Calvinism is the Gospel.
     
  19. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't believe that. I do not believe that God "forsees" faith. God made a decision and a plan (before the foundation of the world) that all those who are in Christ would be saved. In order to be in Christ, you must have faith in Him. It's our decision to believe and live or believe not and be condemned. He did not arbitrarily choose this person over that person, which is what Calvinism teaches.

    And yes, I would tell people that because it's the truth.
     
  20. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    You are EXACTLY right. Jesus did just that as these passages prove irrefutably. Good job in bringing these to bear.:thumbs:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...