Calvinism - TULIP - "I"rresistible Grace

The injustice is not with God, we can agree on that. But in this case the injustice lies with a doctrinal position that places such untowardness at the foot of the throne of God...

Just to keep things in perspective, when I talk to God, I bow my head and approach him with humility and a contrite spirit: When I talk to reformers I stand straight up and assume a defensive posture... I am standing straight up now....

In order to understand love I use a two pronged approach, to find out what it is, I read the love chapter: To find out what it is not, I read reformed theology...

 

So you haven't read much Reformed Theology then, have you?Instead of condemning what you haven't read, why not read some of the material -- past and present?To say something as unfounded as :"To find out what it [ love ] is not, I read Reformed Theology." qualifies as being, what's the word?, o,silly.

 

In this case you have yet to give any Bible prove of your logic that has not been shown to be folly thinking. Where as, the Calvinist at least can support their views from the Bible. It would seem based on this your doctrinal position lies only in human logic and has nothing to do with the will of God.

As you should. We are not to be worshipped for God only holds this honor. But this in no way address the point made.

Do you have the right to call God unjust? Can God send the non-elect to hell to be tortured when it was God that created the non-elect? Even in your own free-will mind, you claim God knows all things. God knew all things at all time, i'm sure you would agree with. But man was not around at all times. So there was a point before man existed that God knew and man did not exist. And part of what God know was that some men would go to hell. And then God made the elect and the none elect. Did God have the right to do this? Was God unjust for making the non-elect?

This is but folly on your part. It would seem like if you had a point to make you would at the very least try to prove it. Just a silly jab with no proof is spit in the wind when others see no meat to your claims.

1 Cor 13

8 Love never fails.

Does Gods love end? Will God stop loving you? Does God love the people that He slashes with a sickle and sends to hell?

 

I have probably read more reformed theology than you have. It is such an aberrant theology that I became obsessed with it and whither it is true or not... It is not...

Disagreement with you does not translate into ignorance.

 

Calvinist support their views by twisting the bible. And human logic is sufficient being that that is all that either you or I have. Nothing supernatural happens when a Calvinist reads the bible.

Logic huh? Shall we start with the logic of "un-conditional election". Illogical

As far as God is concerned, all that I have to support asking questions of his is the passage in the bible that says "come, let us reason together... But I do maintain that I have every right to call reformed theology unjust. I do...

Logic demands that we conclude that from a reformed perspective, it certainly failed the non-elect... But then because they are not a part of your group, they deserve to be hated. You call it justice...

 

Boy o Boy, you know, you really have to wrestle scripture to prove calvanism. You have to add to scripture and you have to take away from scripture.
For instance, you say that all dosen't mean all. Well when I was in school, I was taught that all ment all.
When you read 2 Pet 3:9 (yea I knew it was 2 Pet, I just forgot to put the 2 before pete, my bad)
all means all, Peter didn't say all of the elect. Those who have been born from adam till now. God does not want any to burn in hell, that is why he gave us an choice To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, or reject the Lord Jesus Christ and pay for your sins through out eternity. But becasue God wants his people to love him by there "own free will", he doesn't want a bunch of robot.
It is God's grace that he saved me, but I still had to believe on his only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus. Even if God wanted me saved, but I rejected his son, blasphemed his son, I would have ended up in hell. But thanks to Gods grace I believed on the Lord Jesus in March 2005, and I now know with certinty that I will live forever with the Lord Jesus Christ.
"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. John 14:1-2 AV1611
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12 AV1611
I believe with all that I am that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I am not a "man centered listener". The Lord Jesus Christ is everything to me. If it wasn't for him, I would be on my way to destruction. If I recieved what I truly desirve, I would be in the center of Hell, and I would burn for all eternity. Thanks to God's grace He has saved me from hell and has givin me eternal life.
In 2005, I came to a cross road, I could have rejected the Lord Jesus Christ right then and there, but I didn't, I "chose to believe on him as my saviour, and to live for him the best I can"
"For I can do all things through Christ, which straingtheneth me" Phil 4:13 AV1611
Salvation is to all that will believe. For if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God has raised him from the dead, Thou shalt be saved Romans 3:9 AV1611
God will by his grace save any man who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, wether they are of the elect, like I said before, if your not of the elect now, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" and you will become of the elect

 

It is clear you don't understand his post. He never said all does not mean all. All must be taken in context. If I walk into a room full of people and say...

"ok..everyone...come to my house and we will have hotdogs!!".

Everyone means everyone, but it does not mean everyone in the world, but everyone in the room.

All does mean all, but please apply to context next time.

If God does not want any to burn in hell and it was God's goal to save mankind, why did God not do this before Cain was born? He could have....but he did not.
All would have been saved....but now they are not.

Each day God waits 1000s more go to hell.
What is God waiting on?
If Christ waits another year to come back, millions more will go to hell.

This is but poor understanding of Calvinism and shows you have not a clue what they believe. Free-willers with no understanding always fall back on the robot ploy exposing their lack of understanding of the doctrines. This ploy must be found in a poorly written book on how to hate a calvinist and prove he is wrong, for it is used so much.

No one but maybe a hyper-Calvinist believes men are robots.

,
If this be the case, you need to stop giving the glory to yourself and give all to Him.

And Calvinist would agree

Please note this verse...
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Does all mean all? If God wants you to be saved, He will give you to the Son and you will be saved. right?

 

You will -- I promise -- regret not taking these issues seriously. It reveals 2 things about you: 1) You can't answer and 2) you do not care to "instruct" others in YOUR ignorance.

Again, I give you another chance to answer "where is the straw?" :laugh:

skypair

 

First, James, someone who is RIGHT shouldn't change his views.

But second, please tell how to make a "blind man" see if not with scripture (as in "point them out"). We've been telling you that you have the devil's dictionary and trying to correct your bogus definitions from scripture. What WOULD you believe/see?

skypair

 

Can we just change those words a little to reflect what you seem to us to be saying?

"Is [Calvinism] unjust for this? [Calvinism] forbid.

You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to [Calvinism]?"

You're really just saying that Calvinism knows the will of God when it doesn't. Rom 11 speaks about how God has dealt with ISRAEL. I, on the other hand, would have EVERY RIGHT as an individual to question God as to why He won't save me! Justice and fairness are at stake, are they not? In fact, that questioning is the way many are "drawn" to Christ, James!

No. It is obvious the YOU do not understand scripture when it says "plain as day" "For God so loved the WORLD..."

You know who doesn't think God loves the whole world? Those under conviction and those who, like Eve, are under the delusion of Satan. Please, James. Spare us your phobias and neuroses -- believe the BIBLE.

skypair

 

WOW! I agree with you! Know God. So why is it you major in Calvinism rather than scripture?

Oh? So now God is unjust??

News flash for James -- If I offer you salvation and you refuse it, love has failed.

But, in fact, the verse you cite refers to preservation of the saints and MUTUAL love. I am so sorry that even as I type these words, you won't understand them, James. :tear:

skypair

 

This is getting more hilarious by the minute! All doesn't mean all? "Whitespace?"

No. Context "rules." The rule is "if common sense makes good sense, seek no other sense." What is it about "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" that you don't believe it means "all?" So what is it about the context of "but that ALL should come to repentance" that you doubt? Do you doubt God's love? His justice? His veracity?

skypair

 

The verses have been posted to back what I say.

Here we have more of mans logic. Sad.

What do you mean by blind man?

This is about the 3rd time you have called me of the devil which is not allowed on this board, but for some reason you feel you are above the rules and sin seems not to matter to you. Why is this?

 

Who in the world but a man centered person stuck on his own view in doctrine would change scripture? But you have. Why do you feel like you have the power to change the Bible?

Shame on you. You need to ask forgiveness now.

The verses read as I have posted..

Romans 9 ESV

Frankly...I have been wasting my time with poor logic and poor understanding of the Bible that you display in your post. I mean to debate and make points that must be addresses is one thing, but to rebuild the foundations of the faith is yet another. I see no need for me to go over such grade school things again.

i rest my case.