Calvinist assertions evaluated

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. Van

    Van
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    1. Election is a sovereign free act of God, through which He determines who shall be made heirs of heaven.
    True, supported by Romans 9:18

    2. The elective decree was made in eternity.
    False, but close to truth. An elective decree was made in eternity whereby God chose us (corporately as believers in Christ) in Him from the foundation of the world. But God brings his plan of redemption to fruition during the lifetime of those chosen (specific individual election) based on God crediting their faith in His Son as righteousness. This view is supported by John 3:16 and Acts 16:30-31.

    3. The elective decree contemplates the race as fallen.
    This is logical for God had chosen His lamb for the purpose of redemption.

    4. The elect are brought from a state of sin and into a state of blessedness and happiness.
    True, those in Adam are in a state of sinfulness and those in Christ are in a state of righteousness.

    5. Election is personal, determining what particular individuals shall be saved.
    The election before the foundation of the world was individual, God chose the Word to be His Lamb, His Redeemer, and corporate, He chose us in Him corporately. But the election during our lifetime based on God accepting our faith determines what particular individuals are saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:1-2, James 2:5, and 1 Corinthians 1:26-30.

    6. Election includes both means and ends, — election to eternal life includes election to righteous living here in this world.
    Those elected are placed in Christ and in Him we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, to a Holy Calling, to adoption as children of God and eternal life. Our faith is protected but our walk is not.

    7. The elective decree is made effective by the efficient work of the Holy Spirit, who works when, and where, and how He pleases.
    Irresistible grace, the gift of faith, the inner call are mistaken doctrines without viable scriptural support. The Holy Spirit, working through individuals from Jesus to the disciples to the believers sharing the gospel is responsible for convicting the world.

    8. God's common grace would incline all men to good if not resisted.
    Everything good comes from God, and fallen man is not inclined to choose what is good, but God’s revelation is sufficient in power to seem good to many people for the fields are white with harvest, who are receptive to the gospel.

    9. The elective decree leaves others who are not elected — others who suffer the just consequences of their sin.
    Those not chosen are those who do not believe in Christ and they are condemned from conception, being “in Adam” and separated from God. These folks face perfect justice in the hereafter including both torment for their sins and eternal punishment for their unbelief.
    10. Some men are permitted to follow the evil, which they freely choose, to their own destruction.
    All men that hear and understand the gospel choose whether to accept fully or reject Christ. God then chooses those whose faith He credits as righteousness.. Ultimately, it does not depend upon the man that wills to be saved but upon God who has mercy upon whom He has mercy.

    11. God, in His sovereignty, could regenerate all men if He chose to do so.
    True, God does as He pleases. But His plan is to choose a people for His own possession that will proclaim His excellencies and bring Him glory.

    12. The Judge of all the earth will do right, and will extend His saving grace to multitudes who are undeserving.
    All men deserve whatever God grants them, either just punishment or mercy, they are the clay and God is the potter.
    13. Election is not based on foreseen faith or good works, but only on God's sovereign good pleasure.
    Election is based on God fulfilling His purpose of choosing folks whose faith He credits as righteousness.

    14. Much the larger portion of the human race has been elected to life.
    False, few are those who find the narrow way that leads to life.

    15. All of those dying in infancy are among the elect.
    Only believers in Christ enter the kingdom of heaven. Innocent non-believers will rest in peace and will not suffer according to God’s perfect justice.

    16. There has also been an election of individuals and of nations to external and temporal favors and privileges — an election which falls short of salvation.
    Election means choice and God chooses folks (individuals and groups) for a variety of reasons, some he blesses and some He hardens and some He causes to be prophets and apostles.

    17. The doctrine of election is repeatedly taught and emphasized throughout the Scriptures.
    True, just not the Calvinist view of Election.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    More error...is there no end to this?
    Innocent- non believers?:confused:

    which verses are you going to twist to come up with this idea?
    not this one again:laugh:
    you reworded this heresy again,very resourceful:BangHead:
    lol, good one
     
  3. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
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    That list of hodge-podge theological excrement isn't even worth a reply.
     
  4. Allan

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    I'm not even a Calvinist and I can't even agree with much of his postulations
     
  5. Van

    Van
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    Allan, please provide specific postulation where you disagree it reflects Calvinism. These generalized disparagements without specifics add nothing to the discussion.
     
  6. ReformedBaptist

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    They ain't worth the time to discuss.
     
  7. J.D.

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    Thank you Allan for joining the "other side" at least temporarly for the sake of truth. There's a lot of stuff in that OP, but the most shocking to me is this:
    Anyone knows that mercy that is deserved is not mercy at all, but it is wages.
     
  8. Van

    Van
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    Hi J.D. I did not intend my statement to be understood as God granting mercy on the basis of wages. Grace is not grace if by works. The issue I was trying addressing was the idea that is is unfair for God to grant mercy to some but not all. But because you have shown me how my statement can be misinterpreted logically, I will revise it to read, "All men deserve just punishment for their sins, thus granting mercy is not unjust, but justice perfected by mercy.
     
  9. glfredrick

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    Thanks for saving me the words... :thumbs:
     
  10. Van

    Van
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    Would it be wrong to refer to aborted babies as innocent non-believers. They died before they had done anything good or bad. What we be wrong would be to conclude they will be tormented in the afterlife forever. So rather than say they are given belief and included in Christ, with no scriptural basis, I put forth an answer consistent with all scripture.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God chooses people based on faith in the truth. James 2:5 says God chooses those who are poor to the world as rich in faith.
     
  11. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother
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    :thumbs::thumbs:ditto
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    I haven't looked. Is Harry Houdini getting out of the chains?
     
  13. J.D.

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    Mercy is not justice, and it is especially not perfected justice. Perfected justice is the Great White Throne. Mercy is essentially the opposite of justice. The grace and mercy of God is scandalous - it is taking those that deserve punishment and giving them mercy instead. That is grace. It is not human grace, it is divine grace.

    Van, you have to stop trying to make God think like man thinks. Man is incapable of the type of mercy and grace that God extends. Think about it.
     
  14. Van

    Van
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    The doctrine of infant salvation finds a logical place in the Calvinistic system; for the redemption of the soul is thus infallibly determined irrespective of any faith , repentance or good works, whether actual or foreseen. This quote comes from "11. Infant Salvation" on the Reformed Doctrine of Predestination site.
     
  15. webdog

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    Is God merciful? Is God just? How can He be both if they are opposites?
     
  16. Van

    Van
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    Justice is perfected by mercy. Otherwise, you would hold that God is unjust when He has mercy on whom He has mercy. We deserve justice, punishment for our sin. But Christ took that out of the way. Christ perfected justice with mercy. Anyway, that is how I see it.
     
  17. webdog

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    I don't think innocent would be the correct term. I think a more accurate rendering of an infant's condition would be "not guilty" since our natures from conception are at enmity with God. They do not mean the same thing. Only Christ is truly innocent.
     
  18. Van

    Van
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    Thumbs up Webdog!! (Referring to post #15.)
     
  19. Van

    Van
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    Christ was certainly innocent being sinless, and even a baby is conceived in inquity. But I used the world in a more general way, as innocent as children. A quick scan of the NT shows that Jesus applied that term to others, and therefore my choice of word seems solid.

    Matthew 12:7 for example. An apt verse since the subject is turning legalistic judgment into mercy by the power of love. God Bless
     
  20. glfredrick

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    Would you have us kill children while they remain in their innocence, knowing (KNOWING!) that they will inherit heaven? (God forbid!)

    Seems that God has another plan in mind that shoots holes all over the concept of innocent children.
     

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