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Calvinists, what is the purpose of...

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by William C, May 14, 2003.

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  1. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    Brother Bill,

    You seem to believe there is a point or a line that an unbeliever can cross where God will not be able to save them any longer. When their hardening has crystalized because of their own unbelief or where God has passed a sentence of judicial hardening upon them. Is this basically correct?
     
    #61 Hardsheller, May 27, 2003
  2. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    Bob Ryan,

    Do you believe the Cross (Crucifixion) was Necessary?
     
    #62 Hardsheller, May 27, 2003
  3. William C

    William C New Member

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    Pastor,

    There is never a time God would "not be able to save" anyone! Calvinism could be true. God could, if He so chooses, force anyone to change their will. I have never said God is unable to save someone. I've only said that God is unwilling to save those without faith. He desires for them to believe and follow, but He is unwilling to save them unless they first believe.

    Self hardening doesn't make it impossible for someone to be saved. If it did God wouldn't have needed to impliment His judicial hardening by sending a "spirit of stupor" to dull their minds and harden their hearts.

    I believe scripture clearly shows that one who is self hardened can be persuaded to believe, but it will definantly be more difficult depending upon how hardened one has become. For example, look at Jesus' teaching about the rich. He says it is very difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. My question is, why would it be any more difficult for the rich man if he is effectually called than for anyone else who is effecutally called? It's difficult because the rich are often hardened in materialism and in serving the master of wealth. The love of material wealth and money is a means that the world hardens people. There are many other means as well.

    One who is judicially hardened is unique. We see it with the Israelites of Christ's day and you see it with Pharoah, but other than that I don't know if its a common sentence God passes upon those who rebell against Him. He only seems to judicial harden individuals if He is accomplishing a purpose through them as He did with Pharoah or Judas for example. Is God just in doing this? Ask Paul, he gives us an answer in Romans 9.
     
    #63 William C, May 27, 2003
  4. William C

    William C New Member

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    Hardsheller where did you go? I was enjoying our discussion. [​IMG]
     
    #64 William C, Jun 6, 2003
  5. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    Bill,

    Been Gone for a week. Just got home. Will Re-Arm and Re-engage Shortly! :D
     
    #65 Hardsheller, Jun 6, 2003
  6. William C

    William C New Member

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    I'm still waiting.... :rolleyes:
     
    #66 William C, Jun 16, 2003
  7. Felix

    Felix Member

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    Brother Bill,

    Again, where does that 'believing' or 'faith' come from? Is it given to everyone or is it the gift of the Holy Spirit to the elect?
    Gal 5:22 says that faith is the gift of the Spirit. To whom are these gifts given? To believers or unbelievers? Obviously to believers! BUT, how come an unregenerate man can believe and have faith in Christ without the Spirit's help and the believer needs the gift of faith to go on?

    See also: Acts 5:31 and 16:14! It seems pretty clear to me....:)

    With brotherly love

    Pardi
     
    #67 Felix, Jun 22, 2003
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