can A Chrsitian Attain Sinless perfection before they Die?

I was wondering how far your "free will" and "free choice" had taken you.

The question isn't, "Why would anyone reject the gift of life after receiving it," but can they.

 

What you posted is all lies. If everything is planned, then I am going to just sit back, go fishing, chase my neighbors wife, and spend some quality time with my sexy cousin that bats her eyes at me every family reunion. I do know where a friend of mine has several thousand dollars hidden, why not just take it?

What difference does it makes? Its all God's will, right? If I do it, it is because God predestined it, right?

Wrong, you are preaching lies.

John

 

No they cant.

john

 

Sorry to confuse you with scripture teaching and biblical doctrine...your attitude as expressed here demonstrates why you post as you do...void of understanding. If you want to be taken seriously.....respond to the teaching and verses offered..... This imbecilic post is pathetic.....

If you want to oppose the teaching..go ahead....but at least pretend that you are acquainted with a bible and what is in it.
Try and show what you believe ..if anything....perhaps offer a verse or two

Your posting shows no evidence of anything biblical.....have a nice day:wavey:

 

If you do all that..including the sin mentioned..that would show you were predestined to be a reprobate.....it will not upset or change God's plan at all.
Again if you knew romans 6:1-21 you would not offer this foolishness.

the wicked acts of wicked men were planned ..they sinned willfully, God accomplished redemption despite their sin...as in Josephs story.......you meant it for evil , but God meant it for good......try and grasp it..read the verses..just do not spout off emotional nonsense.

 

Then can you show me by Scriptures that a truly saved person who by "free will/choice" cannot later reject that salvation and spend eternity in hell?

It isn't logical to hold that one has that ability before salvation, but then that freedom of choice is not available when they are as Christ said, "free indeed."

 

When you post something that is biblical, i will respond with something that is biblical. When you post lies, I will respond accordingly

Again, another Calvinist that thinks that anyone that rejects Calvinism is ignorant.

blah blah blah

John

 

Thats my point...are you ignorant? If I am predestined to be a reprobate, then why should I even worry about what God thinks?

John

 

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:27-29.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:35-39

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6

Who are kept by the power of God through faith . . . I Peter 1:5

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37

And this is the Father's will who hath sent me, that all of which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again on the last day. John 6:39

And most especially....

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

What does this have to do with Calvinism and it's false teachings? I thought all of you Calvinists believed in the preserverance of the saints?

I dont undertand your rambling questions, or where they are leading, except to avoid answering my questions.

John

 

Knowing that you can refer to verses that indicate the preservation of the saints and do agree with that too, is comforting.

What part of you was more pleasing to God that you would be saved and some other not?

Were you more sensitive to the wooing of the Holy Spirit?
Were you more intelligent or intellectual and able to understand the Gospel?
Or, was there some other attraction that God noticed about you?​

What brought conviction and the need/desire to be saved?

 

More questions, but no answers.:sleep::sleep::sleep:

John

 

You gave abundant Scriptures to answer very accurately in showing perseverance of the saints, but can you show answers just as much skill in answers to those questions just asked?

 

Study these scriptures, and learn to put them in context, and you will see the lies in Calvinism.

Matthew 18:23-35
Matthew 24:4, 5, 11-13, 23-26
Matthew 25:1-13
Luke 8:11-15
Luke 11:24-28
Luke 12:42-46
John 6:66-71
John 8:31,32
John 8:51
John 13:8
John 15:1-6
Acts 11:21-23
Acts 14:21,22
Romans 6:11-23
Romans 8:12-14,17
Romans 11:20-22
Romans 14:15-23
I Corinthians 9:23-27
I Corinthians 10:1-21
I Corinthians 11:29-32
I Corinthians 15:1,2
II Corinthians 2:4
II Corinthians 11:2-4
II Corinthians 12:21-13:5
Galatians 5:1-4
Galatians 6:7-9
Philippians 2:12-16
Philippians 3:34-41
Colossians l:21-23
Colossians 2:4-8
I Thessalonians 3:1-8
I Timothy 1:3-7,18-20
I Timothy 2:11-15
I Timothy 4:1-16
I Timothy 5:8
I Timothy 5:11-15,5,6
I Timothy 6:9-12
I Timothy 6:20,21
II Timothy 2:11-18
II Timothy 2:22-26
II Timothy 3:13-15
Hebrews 2:1-3
Hebrews 3:6-19
Hebrews 4:1-16
Hebrews 5:8,9
Hebrews 6:4-20
Hebrews 10:19-21
Hebrews 10:32-39
Hebrews 11:13-16
Hebrews 12:1-17
Hebrews 12:25-29
Hebrews 13:9-14
Hebrews 13:17,7
James 1:12-16
James 1:21,22
James 2:14-26
James 4:4-10
James 5:19-20
I Peter 1:5-9,13
II Peter 2:1-22
II Peter 3:16,17
I John 1:5-2:11
I John 2:15-25
I John 2:29-3:10
I John 5:4,5
I John 5:16
II John 6-9
Jude 5-12
Jude 20,21
Revelation 2:7
Revelation 2:10,11
Revelation 2:17
Revelation 2:18-28
Revelation 3:4,5
Revelation 3:8-12
Revelation 12:11
Revelation 17:14
Revelation 21:7,8
Revelation 22:18,19

 

But you did not answer the questions.

Lest you forgot what they were, here they are, again:


What part of you was more pleasing to God that you would be saved and some other not?

Were you more sensitive to the wooing of the Holy Spirit?
Were you more intelligent or intellectual and able to understand the Gospel?
Or, was there some other attraction that God noticed about you?​

What brought conviction and the need/desire to be saved?

 

now study these scriptures that show that Christ came to save everyone, not just some. It is man's choice to reject the gospel, and the consequence for that is hell.

Acts 13:38-39 " 38 Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39 Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses."

1 Timothy 2:3-6 " 3 This is good, and pleases God, our savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus 6 who gave Himself as a ransome for all men - the testimoy given in its proper time."

Revelation 3:20 "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me."

John 1:12 "Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."

Romans 10:9 "That if thou shall shalt confess with thy mouth the lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine own heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins , and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Acts 26:20 "First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds."

Acts 3:19 "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord."

Matthew 1:20-21 20 "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit, 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins."

Luke 1:76-79 " 76 And you, my child will be called a prophet of the most high; for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for Him, 77 to give His people the knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins, 78 because of the tender mercy of our God, by which the rising sun will come to us from Heaven 79 to shine on those living in darkness and in the shadow of death to guide our feet into the path of peace."

Luke 19:10 "For the son of man came to seek and to save what was lost."

2 Cor. 5:21 "For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin: that we might be made righteous of God in Him."

John 3:14-18 "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only son."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 11:25-26 " 25 Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life, He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die."

John 20:31 "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name."

Romans 1:16 "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes.."

Romans 3:21-26 " 21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in HIs blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in His forbearance He had left the sons committed beforehand unpunished 26 He did it to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. "

Romans 10:4 "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Romans 10:8-14 " 8 But what does it say? The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith, we are proclaiming. 9 Thar if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in Him will never be put to shame," 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile - the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on Him, 13 for "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?"

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 " 1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

2 Corinthians 5:17-6:2 " 17 Therefore, if anyone be in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciliating the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against Him. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as through God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: be reconciled to God. 21 God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the be justified."

Galations 2: 20-21 " 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in my body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

Ephesians 2:1-10 " 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of the world and the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were nature objects of wrath. 4 But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our transgressions - it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the Heavenly realms in Christ Jesus , 7 in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - 9 not by works, so that no one can boast ."

1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 " 8 But since we belong to the day, lt us be self controlled, putting on faith and love as a breast plate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him."

2 Thessalonians 2:13 " 13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter."

1 Timothy 1:15-16 " 15 Here is a trustworthy saying,that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners - of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on Him and receive eternal life

 

2 Timothy 3:14-15 " 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

Titus 3:3-7 " 3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and inslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our savior appeared, 5 He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our savior, 7 so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life."

Hebrews 2:2-3 " 2 For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him."

Hebrews 5:9 "And, once made perfect, He became the source of salvation for all who obey Him."

Hebrews 7:25 "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them."

1 John 5:11-13 " 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life in His son. 12 He who has the son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

 

I asked you many questions before you posted these. What kind of game are you playing here?


John

 

I have no problem understanding, and am in agreement with the Scriptures you posted.

However, the first question was about YOU.

The second question was about conviction.

You have yet to answer either question.

 

And how many questions of mine have you answered?

 

1. I was saved because I responded to the call of the gospel through the HS

2. I know where you are going with this. I believe the call of the gospel is available to every man that hears it. But every man does not choose to respond.

John