Can a Dead Body Sin?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 6, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ro 8:10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    HP: Can a dead body sin?
     
  2. Sopranette

    Sopranette
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,828
    Likes Received:
    0
    A person can be spiritually dead and sin, but I think a dead body can't do much at all, let alone sin.:) I think this verse is saying we are all already born spritually dead because of our sin nature, but if the spirit of Christ is in you, His sprit is righteousness, and will grant you eternal life.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  3. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I see the twist right, they are asking can a person spiritually alive sin.

    I believe in eternal security if that answers your question....
     
  4. trustitl

    trustitl
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can a dead body sin?

    Paul was not trying to answer the above question, but rather was addressing "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?", "Is the law sin?" and "who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Therefore, the answer to the above question would be no, but would not shed any light on understanding Paul's point in this section of scripture.

    Thinking that death is "spiritual death" leads to a confusion and misunderstanding of Romans 6-8. When we see that we not only died with Christ but have also risen with Him in newness of life we begin to get some where. Like in science, to get the right answer you need to ask the right question. That question here would be "can a person who has died with Christ and risen in newness of life sin?" The answer to that would be yes, but only because he has yielded to his members that have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer the old man sinning, but the new man who is grieving the Spirit within.

    Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

    This wonderful passage comes after the following and sheds light on how we can stop sinning.

    Romans 6:20 "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

    Romans 7:5 "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
     
  5. Born_in_Crewe

    Born_in_Crewe
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Of course not. A dead body is much like an inanimate object.
     
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are two men in the race. There is an inward man,and there is an outward man. Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead", so we see that we can be dead because of sin, but inwardly we are alive in Christ Jesus with the promise that "the creature itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption, unto the glorious liberties of the children of God. The outward man in on the way to the grave, the inward man is renewed everyday. The inward man has already received its change, the outward man is waiting of his change in the resurrection.

    BBob,
     
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have enjoyed reading all the posts.:thumbs: I especially like TrustitL and Brother Bob’s viewpoints. They both give the listener much to ponder and consider.:thumbs:

    Paul said to Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

    Any thoughts on how this verse is made a reality in our lives and the fruit of which such a walk might gender? What does it mean to ‘reckon ourselves to be dead indeed to sin?’ Does the word ‘indeed’ have or add import?
     
  8. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is the inward man that is dead to sin and "alive" in Christ Jesus. Already cleaned up and ready to have the angels carry him to heaven, when the natural death comes to the body or outward man.
    Many scriptures can not be understood, if you do not consider the fact of the two men in the race.

    The outward man has not received its change as of yet, and will not until the resurrection, therefore the flesh is not alive unto Christ Jesus, but is a crucified man and subject to the inward man. He that walketh after the flesh shall die, and that is not the natural death, but the LoF, but he, through the Spirit, shall mortify the deeds of the body, he shall live. (which means to bring your body under subjection to the inward man, and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh).

    BBob,
     
    #8 Brother Bob, Jul 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2008
  9. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    HP: Oh Lord, may it be so in our lives! May we be found with oil in our lamps on that day!
     
  10. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    I love you brother....:wavey:

    BBob,
     
  11. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    I should have read that post before I ate the wifes meatloaf. Rare she cooks but when she does... YUM!

    Seconds were too much but the sandwich I ate later may have been gluttony. I'll have to check my account tonight.
     
  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Doc put me on a strict diet, I am eating grass now......:laugh:

    BBob,
     
  13. trustitl

    trustitl
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    0
    Those in the south use the word properly. They look up at the ominous clouds and say "I reckon it gonna rain". It is not an act of "conjuring up" some rain, rather it is merely an acknowledging of the way things are. This is what we are to do in regards to what has happened to us.
     
  14. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: You don’t suppose the author of the verse hailed from a different location than the South do you?:laugh: Let me explain.

    We are told on a regular basis that we cannot live without sin, and that we all sin everyday in thought word and deed. Now if I am reading you rightly, ‘reckoning oneself dead indeed to sin’ in such cases where habitual sin is the daily practice (or as some contend the only other choice is to be a habitual liar) would not that ‘reckoning’ be sort of like that ‘conjuring up’ you say it is not meant to be?
     
  15. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess with enough Tabasco even grass would be eatable...
     
  16. trustitl

    trustitl
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    0
    We are told all kinds of things that are untrue. Most Christians know that they will go to heaven and on their death bed die with peace. Their families will even celebrate their "passing" at a funeral service. They believe that Christ has power over death and the sting of death is gone. However, they fail to believe the whole truth of the gospel and see that sin is no longer our master. To them salvation only saves them from going to hell.

    Romans 6:9 "Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord...14 For sin shall not have dominion over you."

    I cannot "reckon" myself out of hell anymore than I can reckon myself to be the President of the United States. Reckoning is not a work or something we can do to make things happen. We use the word "suppose" this way. When we are out on the lake and and the sky is getting dark we suppose it is going to rain and head for shore. My supposing doesn't make it rain and I can't suppose it to not rain. We are merely looking at the facts and make our decision accordingly. We add things up and say it is best to get off the lake.

    When death is coming a good Baptist will do this and the sting is gone. The reckoning does not save them from death for it is already accomplished. When temptation comes we need to reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin but alive unto God. My reckoning does not keep me from sinning, it merely is me seeing the temptation for what it is. I make my decision accordingly and yield my members to my master unto righteousness.

    It is what the name it and claim it crowd should be doing: not to some demon or some false promise. It too, should be what we are doing to one another: admonishing (or reminding) each other in the faith. Sadly, the opposite is happening and I actually heard from a baptist pulpit "you will just keep on sinning until you die, but we need to keep fighting against it". Fighting a war that is won. Sad.

    No, the fight we are to be in is the fight of faith: believing something outside ourselves. This is what our father Abraham did when he believed God could do something that his own flesh could not. Flesh cannot resist temptation but sadly too many are trying to be made perfect in the flesh.
     
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    1Cr 10:13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

    And then there is scripture. I am afraid the claim of the weakness of the flesh, will not work when Jesus says "I was hungry and ye fed me not, I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink. If you die in your sins, where I am you cannot not come. You committed adultery and sinned, not only against me, but against your own body. Christians are in the world, but not of the world. We are led by the Spirit of God, which does not lead to lies, adultery, murder, idols, etc. We make our mistakes alright, but we are the first to know all about it, for God certainly will remind us. IMO

    I think, the weakness of the flesh, argument is the biggest "cope out", I have ever heard. Jesus said I will never leave you. Do we believe Him or not?

    BBob,
     
    #17 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2008
  18. trustitl

    trustitl
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brother Bob points out something that makes me need to correct myself. I said "Flesh cannot resist temptation" which is incorrect. Look at the Buddhist. Look at the Pharisee. Look at the poor Baptist(or any other Christian) that is pushing his will power to the max. They do resist temptation and do righteousness. However, it is a righteousness that will bring them straight to hell.

    I will stick with the righteousness that is by faith.

    Col. 2:20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

    This type of religion is impressive to men but God sees it for what it is. We are not to focus on men and their rules but rather:

    Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
     
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rom 8:1 ¶ [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

    Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    It is commanded of God that you do not walk after the flesh, or lend your members to do that of the flesh, but that you bring under subjection the deeds of the body.
    If you have the true faith, you will not lend your members to the devil.

    You talk about the faith of Abraham, he staggered not at the promises of God.

    Do both, walk by faith and keep your deeds of the body in subjection and ye shall live.

    You can say you are living in faith all you want, but out with another man’s wife, and I don’t believe a word you say. Neither should you believe me, If I too am guilty of such.

    Christians are not living after the worldly thing so Satan.

    We don't do it to be spoken well of men either, we do it because we are kept by the power of God. The Holy Ghost dwells within us, Jesus dwells within us, and they are not going over to the neighbor's house to commit adultery.

    He said I will never leave you. Well, if you are in the act of adultery, I guarntee you that Jesus is not there with you.

    Why do Christians teach and preach that a Christian can do all these filthy things of Satan, I just do not know.

    BBob
     
  20. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    The reason a Christian is not subject to those ordinances, is they are made free by the blood of the Lamb and do not have a desire, nor do they do those things anymore. We have a "new" heart and our mind is upon serving the Lord.

    A law that says "drunk drivers go to jail", has not effect on me whatsoever, you know why? I do not drink. The same is true with "thou shalt not commit adultery", has no effect on me, for I do not commit adultery. "thou shall not kill", the same, I do not kill and have no desire to do so.

    I have to go to the gym, I will look at the board when I return. Have a nice day.

    BBob,
     
    #20 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2008
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...