can ANY sinner be saved apart from hearing the Gospel message about Jesus?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Jan 27, 2014.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Could God based it upon knowing what they would have done if they had actually heard it?

    or

    Could he have chosen to elect out and save some who never heard?

    or could he choose to save all babies/unborns/mentally challenged because of the abundant Grace of the Cross, and his own pleasures?

    Well?
     
  2. convicted1

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    1 Cor. 1:21, Eph. 1:13, & Romans 1:16 sure prove the necessity of the gospel....
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    Nope.....................
     
  4. prophet

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    Could God seal 144,000 virgin young men, 12,000 from each tribe of Israel, in the last days?
     
  5. InTheLight

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    I think he saved John the Baptist without him needing to hear the gospel. So there is one example. I think he was a special case and nowadays the gospel must be heard in order to be saved.
     
  6. convicted1

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    Yeah, John the Baptist is a special person, being the only human other than Christ being with the Spirit whilst in the womb.
     
  7. OldRegular

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    Virgin young men!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

    He could but He will not!
     
  8. OldRegular

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    God will bring all His Chosen Ones to Salvation in Jesus Christ!
     
  9. convicted1

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  10. BobRyan

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    According to Romans 2:13-16 they "Show the works of the law written on the hear" when they "do INSTINCTIVELY the things of the law".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Jedi Knight

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    Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?
     
  12. Fred's Wife

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    Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Rom 10

    14 How then will they
    call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
    15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”


    Paul could not be more explicit in asking the very same question many ask today – HOW can they (in this case OT Jews) have been saved if they did not hear the “Good news” (Gospel).

    Rom 10
    16 However, they did not all heed
    the good news (Gospel); for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?”


    In vs 16 Paul argues that Isaiah is preaching the “Good News”. Paul gives no hint at all here that “There are many good news gospels and the Jews got number 10276” – rather he simply uses the term “Good News” translated “Gospel” and applies it to the teaching of OT prophets such as Isaiah.

    And so we find IN the text itself that Paul is explicit in his own reference here to the “good news” (Gospel). Not just “some kind of news”.

    Romans 10
    17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
    18 But I say,
    surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;


    (Ps 19 is quoted here)

    THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH,
    AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.”


    Now Ps 19 - the full text



    1 The heavens are telling of the glory of God;
    And their
    expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    2 Day to
    day pours forth speech,
    And night to
    night reveals knowledge.
    3 There is no speech, nor are there words;
    Their voice is not heard.
    4
    Their line has gone out through all the earth,
    And their utterances to the end of the world.
    In them He has placed a tent for the sun,
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Does that mean will not save any aborted babies, crib death infants, mentally challenge dpersons then, as non of them come to 'saving faith: in Christ, not unless you holf to Baptismal regeneration as RCC do, and Lutheryns also!
     
  15. convicted1

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    Trust me on this; Brother O.R. does NOT hold to baptismal regeneration. I'd go so far as to say he doesn't even hold to gospel regeneration, but that's another topic altogether.

    Now, what part of "not of yourselves, but it is a gift of God" hard to swallow? Sanctification, justification(faith), repentance, salvation, glorification are all gifts of God, and "not of yourselves". God quickens whomever and whenever He wills.
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    So ou would agree that the Lord "normal" means to have the sinners saved is by grace alone, received by them thru faith alone in jesus, but that he also has the salvation provoded for by/in the Cross for those unable to 'come to faith" in jesus?

    and o do NOT refer to those who have not heard, as to me, the Lord will indeed amke sure tht somehow, by radio, tv, missionary, track etc, those to get saved will hear of jesus and receive Him to be saved by him!
     
  17. OldRegular

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    I have posted an article by Albert Mohler addressing this issue on more than one occasion. You might find it on Mohler's website!
     
  18. convicted1

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    Grace alone saves. Faith is the vehicle by which it travels, but faith alone doesn't save. True God given faith will bring forth true God given repentance, which will bring forth God given salvation. No faith, no grace...no grace, no faith.
     
  19. BobRyan

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    The cross is the basis for all salvation - whether the person that is saved is fully informed on the point or not. As we see from the Heb 11 list of saints.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    So babies/unborm small children mentally challenged are not saved then?
     
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