Can Christian Music be unspiritual?

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by procyon, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. procyon

    procyon
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe a lot of young people are being diverted from Christ through modern Christian music, based on secular rock and pop rhythms. The music clearly appeals to the flesh. I wonder if Satan is behind this strategy of appeal to young adolescent minds through secular music under the garb of spirituality.

    I believe music can be spiritual and truly heart-uplifting. :cool: It can also be fleshly and 'gut-wrenching'. :eek:

    What do you think? [​IMG]
     
  2. Rachel

    Rachel
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,939
    Likes Received:
    0
    What would you consider godly music? Hymns only?
     
  3. procyon

    procyon
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Christian music must be uplifting. Certain classical music is uplifting. Rock music with its aggressive rhythms cannot be uplifting; it can be exciting. The music of the old hymns was godly. The music of modern Christian songs is patterned after secular music.

    I believe a lot of people are carried away by wrong music, fleshly music, unspiritual music, loud rock music, music that appeals to baser instincts...The indwelling Holy Spirit can guide us in this matter.
     
  4. bapmom

    bapmom
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why does it always go there, Rachel?

    A) theres nothing wrong with only liking hymns

    B) no one here that Ive ever read has EVER said that ONLY hymns are spiritual. In fact, over and over people have said the opposite. There are many MANY songs written in both older and more modern times which we love and enjoy as being spiritually uplifting.

    You need to leave your preconceived notions behind, that those who do not agree with rock and/or CCM must necessarily only like hymns.

    It seems that you use that as an accusation against anyone who makes any claim that rock is not a Godly form of music.
     
  5. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Using toilet paper can be unscriptural. I'm still going to use toilet paper [​IMG]
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Clearly even more are turned off by mean spirited, legalistic folks in the church. The numbers were going down long before CCM as we know it today showed on the scene.

    But when Isaac Watts started having CCM people condemned him just like others do today. But the fact is that it drew people into church.

    According to some we should go back to how it was for about 1000 years--no music. Many claimed when Isaac showed up he was of the devil.

    Nothing new under the sun.
     
  7. bapmom

    bapmom
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    0
    why is it ok to call a non-CCM person mean spirited and legalistic?

    Isnt THAT mean-spirited?

    Isnt it also actually legalistic?

    Youve judged his attitude based on his viewpoint of music.

    Thats not right.
     
  8. Rachel

    Rachel
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,939
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, why does it always go here?

    A. I love hymns, I never said there was anything wrong with them. Just the folks that condemn everything else that isn't in a hymn book. That every other kind of music is unspiritual.

    B. I have seen people say the above.

    Nope, no preconceived notions at all. Just going by what I see and am told. (I mean in general)
    Accusations?? I asked what the OP was talking about. And he told us didn't he? That modern Christian music and Christian rock isn't godly music. I disagree.

    I get tired of the fact people try push their musical choices of what they like on others. That if you happen to like contemporay or other forms then that's unspirtual. You are made out to be less of a Christian or a liberal.

    If someone only likes hymns, that's great! If someone likes only CC that's great! If someone only likes Christian Country music, that's great too. I can worship God with all the above. I thank God for music, it's something I really enjoy.

    When it comes to Christian music, with everyone's tastes....I think we can all agree to disagree. We shouldn't look down on other Christians for their choices.

    See my point?
     
  9. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    No it is not, but bapmom, your response to Rachel was not either. How do you know that she wasn't trying to just feel out procycon's opinion of what godly music is?
     
  10. cojosh

    cojosh
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2002
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good post procyon,

    This seems to be a very controversal subject in churches of today, at least where I'm from. The answer is a big YES!!! There is a lot of music being produced by the Christian Music Industry that does not carry the message of Christ at all. On the other hand, there are many song writers and musicians that are concerned with glorifying God with their talents. Not all CCM is of Satan, but I believe some of it is. Go to the local Christian book store and look at the album covers, listen to some of the tracks, read the lyrics. It's not of God, must be of Satan. The truth is: there are thousand of Christian singers, groups, bands, etc. It would be wrong for me to judge all of them by what I have experienced in one situation. I have to critique each one indivually. Some are good, some are not!

    Hope this helps.
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    bapmom

    I was responding to his comment, "I believe a lot of young people are being diverted from Christ through modern Christian music, based on secular rock and pop rhythms." You are assuming I named non-CCM folks as mean spirited. That is not the case. There is plenty of room for selfishness on every side of the issue.

    Notice I wrote, "Clearly even more are turned off by mean spirited, legalistic folks in the church. The numbers were going down long before CCM as we know it today showed on the scene."

    The problem is not CCM or non-CCM. The problem is other things in the church. Begin to knock on doors and share the gospel with people you will easily find out what they think about the church.

    "You've judged his attitude based on his viewpoint of music." Your judgment is wrong. People have been diverted since man was created. CCM has nothing to do with that. For 1000 years there was no such thing as Christian music and people were diverted. I have seen numerous numbers come to Christ through CCM and hymns. It is not so much about the music as it is about the people who love Jesus. When Christians love one another they will begin to see God move among them.

    Personally I think some CCM is terrible and some hymns are awful. All hymns were CCM. I think Isaac Watts did quite a remarkable job with CCM at the time while others named him as of the devil. So what else is new? I am a believer that whatever music is done must glorify God. But who am I to interject my personal preferences. Show me an organ in the Bible. Show me loud clanging cymbals in a church. Yet scripture speaks of the cymbals in Ps. 150.

    Clearly when one reads Phil. 2 that is contemporary Christian music of the day.

    Eventually the CCM 30 years later becomes a hymn.

    So much of the CCM versus hymns bologna is just a diversion from the real thing. Satan loves those diversionary tactics.

    If you knock on a few hundred doors each month and disciple people, CCM and hymns is not much of an issue. The one rocking the boat is seldom the one rowing it.

    I have a close friend who had been a missionary for about 26 years and when he returned he noticed the teaching ministry of the church including the Sunday school and preaching was watery. He also noticed evangelism was way down. Never once did he say anything about the music.

    Music is not the core issue. The issue is do we know God. When someone knows God he will not be afraid to speak the truth and fear losing his pastoral position. Any pastor who is afraid to speak the truth and fears losing his job should be without the privilege of preaching and pastoring. God is God and man should not be feared.

    It is better to be fired from preaching the truth than to be in bondage in a church building giving out watery milk each Sunday.
     
  12. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear GB93433,

    You wrote: "Clearly even more are turned off by mean spirited, legalistic folks in the church. The numbers were going down long before CCM as we know it today showed on the scene."

    The problem is not CCM or non-CCM. The problem is other things in the church. Begin to knock on doors and share the gospel with people you will easily find out what they think about the church."

    And, " I have a close friend who had been a missionary for about 26 years and when he returned he noticed the teaching ministry of the church including the Sunday school and preaching was watery. He also noticed evangelism was way down. Never once did he say anything about the music."

    But, nobody wants to look at,and change their behavior,which comes from their hearts,not CCM. CCM is a far easier target,just exclude it and all will be fine. :rolleyes:

    What about all of the Scripture references regarding the heart,the seat of evil ?

    An excellent post! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    In Christ,

    Dale
     
  13. bapmom

    bapmom
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    0
    No it is not, but bapmom, your response to Rachel was not either. How do you know that she wasn't trying to just feel out procycon's opinion of what godly music is? </font>[/QUOTE]based on prior history and the way things almost always go in the Music forum here.


    I don't intend on "arguing" this thread, but I will stand up for people who get bashed simply because they are more on the conservative side of the music issue.

    We tend to be called legalistic immediately, and even mean-spirited....and its not really fair, thats all.

    I tried to be kind, and not call names, merely to point out how she's coming across.
     
  14. princessJJ

    princessJJ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think you are ALL gettting off track.

    It really doesn't matter if the music is fast or slow. It doesn't matter if it isn't or is a hymn. What matters is the act of worship to glorify God.

    The Bible does say you should sing hymns. It also says to play all the insturments.

    I've heard and seen a lot of people saying well that new music, or that rock music is wrong, but if you take the time to listen to it, and know the words you will find some AWESOME meaning in those songs!

    Don't be judgemental, as long as it is glorifying to God let it be!
     
  15. Brice

    Brice
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    0
    GB93433,

    Great post.

    Bapmom,

    I agree, this thread probably won't make any progress, hey you never know [​IMG] . I think you are a fair minded person that just sees this differently then some of us do.

    God Bless.
     
  16. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    BM,

    I am sorry if I offended you, as this was not my intent. This the very first thread I have ever read in the music forum. I felt as if you immediately judged Rachel, because she did not give an opinion one way or another in her initial post. I felt as if she was trying to clear up what procycon's actual stance on music so that she could respond correctly to the OP. In her later post she even clarified that she loved hymns. I just thought it fair to point out that both sides seemed to be unjustly accusing the other at first.
     
  17. Mike McK

    Mike McK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think people are "diverted from Christ" by Christian music, but I do think there's a lot of current Christian music that gives people the false impression that it's a lot deeper and more substantial than it really is.

    I see a lot of people turning to CCM for spiritual meat when it's only just milk, and often not very good milk at that.



    Gut wrenching isn't a bad thing.

    For instance, no song is gut wrenching if not Randy Stonehill's "Lonely House", written about the breakup of his marriage following the death of their child.

    It's a song that comes out of a lot of pain and I believe that God can use that song to speak to other people in pain.

    Another song on that album is called "Fire". I used to do that song with my band and the lyrics were so strong, that I almost felt that I had a duty to sing it reverently. I don't really know how to describe the way I felt about that song, but that's the only song that ever did that to me. It's also special to me in that it allowed me to lead someone to Christ in the parking lot of the bar where we were playing.

    Vern Gosdin was the master of gut wrenching songs.

    Gut wrenching is good.

    Now Playing: Kate Rusby – “Underneath the Stars”
     
  18. Rachel

    Rachel
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,939
    Likes Received:
    0
    No it is not, but bapmom, your response to Rachel was not either. How do you know that she wasn't trying to just feel out procycon's opinion of what godly music is? </font>[/QUOTE]based on prior history and the way things almost always go in the Music forum here.


    I don't intend on "arguing" this thread, but I will stand up for people who get bashed simply because they are more on the conservative side of the music issue.

    We tend to be called legalistic immediately, and even mean-spirited....and its not really fair, thats all.

    I tried to be kind, and not call names, merely to point out how she's coming across.
    </font>[/QUOTE]How I'm coming across?? Are you kidding me?
    Did I bash anyone? No! Did you even read my posts? Or just saw my name and immediately jumped on me for that with some kind of preconceived notions you have of me? Take a step back and read my posts then read yours. Unbeliveable!
     
  19. bapmom

    bapmom
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    0
    not all that unbelievable, Rachel. Not at all.

    Have you read much in the music forum?

    Any time someone comes in and tries to have any sort of discussion about CCM or Rock music....whether they started civilly or not....it is brought up as if they only like very slow, very boring, and/or "last century style music."
    You're not the only one, but you are one of them.
     
  20. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    But Bapmom, you are still pigeonholing Rachel. She did not say anything about hymns, one way or another, in her initial post. She was clarifying what procycon considered "godly music". why are you faulting her based on your preconceived notions? You accused her of doing the same thing you are now doing. Why should Rachel be held accountable for your previous experiences? I would hardly call that fair or just.
     

Share This Page

Loading...