Can Christian Music be unspiritual?

ok Filmproducer,

Im going to drop it.

Almost no one in the music forum is willing to see a conservative viewpoint of music. We just arent accepted with much openness here.

I was speaking of an opinion based on a history of PERSONAL experience with a particular person. I was not being general, in this case, although in most of my posts I try to be as general as I can when dealing with personal issues.

Perhaps it would have been better done in pms, but Ive found that the music forum is, in particular, mostly frequented by people who only want their opinion on music and will tolerate no one else's.

 

All types of music CAN glorify God.
A person can be a great Christian no matter what style of Christian music they listen to.
If you don't like CCM, don't listen to it.
if you don't like hymns, don't listen to them
If you don't like banjo's, don't listen to bluegrass gospel.
If you don't like.....
Well, you get the point.

We all have personal preferences. Mine is CCM. Does that make me a better Christian than others?
No way.

All, and I mean all, types of music appeals to our flesh. Yes, even Southern Gospel. That is why we like to listen to it. If you didn't like it, would you listen to it? No.

God wired us that way. There is nothing wrong with it.

We like pretty things also. That is not spiritual. That is just the way God wired our bodies.

CCM is as honoring to God as any other style of Christian music.

 

actually tinytim,

this is another of my issues with the way people think about this issue.

I can't speak to your particular likes and dislikes of course, nor to whether or not Id "enjoy" the same thing you enjoy. But many of us who don't agree with CCM do not base it on a personal preference of style. There is quite a bit of CCM that is personally quite appealing to me. But that doesn't mean I agree with it just because I like it.
We use the term "like" and "dislike" rather loosely sometimes. Right? Thats why Ive started referring to it as "agree" or "disagree" with it.

Yeah, music has some appeal to flesh all the time. The flesh isn't to be ignored completely, and we are made to physically enjoy music.


Frankly, most here couldn't bear to hear what Ive observed amongst these circles. They wouldn't handle it without getting offended....and so there's really no use in even discussing it any longer.

 

bapmom, you keep bearing false witness against me and I don't like it one bit. I don't even post much in this forum!
If you had ever read any of my posts here you would know what my view is.

If you have such a problem with me you should have PM'd me.

 

sorry Rachel, Im not trying to bear false witness.

I was just trying to point out something that Ive observed in the times Ive interacted with you here.

Like I said already, perhaps I should have done so in PMs, but in the beginning it did not seem to me to warrant such a measure.

Im sorry if I offended you......


In my last post I was no longer referring to you.

However, it is true that here in the music forum the people seem to be so much more easily offended. I do believe it is a valid point to bring out when discussing this sort of music, because I honestly believe it plays a part in that sensitivity.

Basically, these circles are far more sensitive. They are more feeling people.....and in some ways we can learn a lesson from that. We ought to feel more in our spiritual lives. BUT, my observations and personal dealings with many over the years has led me to believe that this sensitivity and feeling-orientation is usually taken to an extreme among my fellow Christians in the CCM crowds.
"What feels good" is very often seen as being the basis for "what is right." Not necessarily in ALL areas of their lives, but certainly in the area of music it is true for them.....and it most certainly does often bleed over into other areas of their lives. The idea is that if it doesn't bother them, than it must not bother God either.

In my observations, there is usually a great sense of spirituality at first....and then when you really sit and talk with them you find out that they don't have much more to impart except for a "sense" of feeling. I have no idea what their true spiritual walk with God is, so Im not talking about what I think their reality is. Just observing what they usually impart to others around them when they talk and minister.

We need those people who can minister to others based on helping them feel better. But the ministering ought not stop there. The feelings are but one aspect, and they are not even the most important aspect, of a walk with God.

 

sorry... that quote was from princessJJ.

im still laughing.

 

"Thou shalt sing from thine hymnals and your voice shall sing."

hehehe. LOL. i cant get over how funny that is...

 

gekko,

your last is funny

but she's right. The Bible does say that. Before you laughed at her for saying it, you might have looked it up to see if it was scriptural.

Eph 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

oh i know that. but what was the definition of "hymns" way back then? im pretty sure they didn't have Amazing Grace when they was walking around...

 

The 256 AD Broadman is still a classic hymnal.

 

and thats the only one? i cant imagine they only sand one hymn... lol. thats funny in itself. it'd be like listening to it on Repeat...

 

Actually, the Broadman was published in 1940. Several years ago I did an survey of the four major hymnals published by the Southern Baptsit Convention, of which the Broadman is the first, to see how many "new" copyrights were in each hymnal (Broadman(1940), Baptist Hymnal 1956, 1975 and The Baptist Hymnal (1991)).

Which collection had the highest percentage of new copyrights - The Broadman.

Just an interesting tidbit of information especially since this is the hymnal seen as "the bastion of conservative music."

 

It also says to sing Psalms and Spiritual Songs - Whatever those are.

 

As to the main point of this thread...

We all need to know our personal limitations. We need to relaize how much "meat sacrificed to idols" we each can eat and maintain our integrity.

I find some CCM very uplifting and worshipful and some not so. I have experienced some concerts by the more "cutting edge" bands that I did not find very uplifting. I tend to find much of CCM rather trite and shallow but I find this in many more traditional musical styles.

My own philospohy as a Music Minister is to choose the best from many traditions. The best both textually (sound theologically and poetically) and musically. I also take into account the group the worship or concert is primarily being planned for.

I use early chant all the way to some CCM in worship.

Yes, some CCM may lead a person to a false sense but any form or style of music can do this as well.

 

"Uplifting"? This is a very vague category. If you mean the emotional response, many hymns (or at least the way they are played in churches) are very somber sounding, and many rock/contemporary songs are happier in tone.

 

"Uplifting"? This is a very vague category. If you mean the emotional response, many hymns (or at least the way they are played in churches) are very somber sounding, and many rock/contemporary songs are happier in tone. </font>[/QUOTE]Good point. Many, if not most, traditional hymns are taken too slowly. But there does need to be the feeling of "proper" tempo so the text is not lost. Another thought is that some hymns and contemporary songs are intended to be somber - there are some "non-happy" moments in Christian worship - confession and repentence for example.

 

Most churches are filled with 90% of the people who never lead anybody to Christ. Even less ever disciple anyone. So what does what say about feelings and responsibility? Any different than what your judgment is about those involved with music?

 

It is one of my pet peeves how some churches use the hymns. The other day there was a church televising their service, and the beautiful hymn was being sung by the choir, but it was so slow that I thought the director was going to fall asleep while standing up there.

But thats not how most of them are actually written. A "waltz" lends itself well to either being up-beat, or having moments of slower pace.
My church used to sing all our songs so fast that you almost couldn't get the words out in time. I didn't think that was very good, either.

So I understand the problem alot of people have is not really with the hymns, but how they are played.

Ya know? that sounds like exactly my position.....HOW any particular song is played has alot to do with it.

 

I enjoy hymns and CCM which glorify God. I do not like music that does not edify.

If you had a course in music history you would see your attitude expressed among those who were unwilling to change and called it conservative. Isaac Watts was highly criticized and told his music was "from the devil." Today I am sure you sing that music "from the devil" in music called hymns. Do you really know the difference between CCM and hymns? Most often CCM speaks about what God is doing in the present and hymns speak about what God has done in the past. My God does not live in the past but I walk with Him in the present. It is nice to know what God has done but I must worship him in spirit and truth in the present.

If you claim all hymns are good, could you tell me what is biblical about the hymn "It came upon a midnight clear?"