Can Good Fruit come from a Bad Tree?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by plain_n_simple, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
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    Jesus commanded us to love, He said if you love Me, you will keep my commands. He did not come to condenm the world, but to save it. The same spirit of condemnation lives in John Calvins followers today.

    Michael Servetus was a Christian living in the 1500's who incurred the wrath of John Calvin and was murdered by him and his cronies for illegitimate reasons. He was accused of heresy and railroaded through a mock trial and put to death being burned alive at the stake. Yet such an atrocity was praised by even well-known Calvinists as Bullinger and others for generations.

    A couple of quotes from John Calvin himself:

    7 years before the incident:

    "If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."
    Written by John Calvin in a letter to Farel Feb. 13, 1546

    During the incident:

    Again Calvin writes Farel in a letter dated Aug 20th 1553 where he has Servetus arrested.

    "We have now new business in hand with Servetus. He intended perhaps passing through this city; for it is not yet known with what design he came. But after he had been recognized, I thought that he should be detained. My friend Nicolas summoned him on a capital charge. ... I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed upon him"

    After the incident:

    "Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face."

    "Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt."


    The strongest recorded statement from Calvin on the Servetus affair is a 1561 letter from Calvin to the Marquis Paet, high chamberlain to the King of Navarre, in which he says intolerantly:

    "Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels, who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."

    Servetus' final words while being burned alive tied to a stake:
    "Jesu, thou Son of the eternal God, have compassion upon me!"

    Yet a heartless modern day Calvinist comments on this saying "This phrase epitomizes the essence of his Trinitarian error" for he said "Son of the eternal God" rather than "eternal Son of God"

    Some Official Reasons for being burned alive:

    Accused of teaching against infant baptism
    Accused of defaming John Calvin
    Accused of refraining from marriage for a "long time"
    Accused of denying the Trinity


    Jesus never said develop a doctrine, call it Mine, and if they reject it, kill them. God is not the author of confusion, John Calvin surely was.

    James 3
    14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

    15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

    16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

    17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
     
  2. marke

    marke
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    I don't know much about history, but I do know that those Calvinists I have talked with seem to share a concept of God as being unapproachable in His high holiness, and indifferent to the destiny of the lost who cannot be saved and will not be saved because God opposes it.
     
  3. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
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    I did not know either, til God showed me the fruit. I watch the longwinded responses that it takes to answer simple questions, and saw the pride in Calvin defenders. Makes God seem unapproachable you are right.
     
  4. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills
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  5. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
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  6. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills
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    Aaron, one of the posters on here (a mean nasty calvinist :praying:) posted the link several months back and I've enjoyed it ever since. Just click on the banner at the top of the page, and it will take you to the latest entry. Also you can click on the About The Sandwhich link. Be cautious though, its written by Calvinists. Just hoping to get you to understand to look past labels. Those who adhere to Calvinism or the DOG or Refromed tradition whatever you want to call it, don't follow man as many try to argue. I hope you will spend some time on the site.
     

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