Can Solomon's intoxication doctrine be reconciled with David's prevalence?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jope, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. Jope

    Jope
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    Saul wanted to bring about the downfall of David through a woman:

    1Sam. 18 ESV, bold emphases and underline emphasis mine
    14 And David had success in all his undertakings, for the Lord was with him. 15 And when Saul saw that he had great success, he stood in fearful awe of him. 16 But all Israel and Judah loved David, for he went out and came in before them.

    17 Then Saul said to David, “Here is my elder daughter Merab. I will give her to you for a wife. Only be valiant for me and fight the Lord's battles.” For Saul thought, “Let not my hand be against him, but let the hand of the Philistines be against him.” 18 And David said to Saul, “Who am I, and who are my relatives, my father's clan in Israel, that I should be son-in-law to the king?” 19 But at the time when Merab, Saul's daughter, should have been given to David, she was given to Adriel the Meholathite for a wife.

    20 Now Saul's daughter Michal loved David. And they told Saul, and the thing pleased him. 21 Saul thought, “Let me give her to him, that she may be a snare for him and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him.” Therefore Saul said to David a second time, “You shall now be my son-in-law.” 22 And Saul commanded his servants, “Speak to David in private and say, ‘Behold, the king has delight in you, and all his servants love you. Now then become the king's son-in-law.’” 23 And Saul's servants spoke those words in the ears of David. And David said, “Does it seem to you a little thing to become the king's son-in-law, since I am a poor man and have no reputation?” 24 And the servants of Saul told him, “Thus and so did David speak.” 25 Then Saul said, “Thus shall you say to David, ‘The king desires no bride-price except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, that he may be avenged of the king's enemies.’” Now Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines. 26 And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king's son-in-law. Before the time had expired, 27 David arose and went, along with his men, and killed two hundred of the Philistines. And David brought their foreskins, which were given in full number to the king, that he might become the king's son-in-law. And Saul gave him his daughter Michal for a wife. 28 But when Saul saw and knew that the Lord was with David, and that Michal, Saul's daughter, loved him, 29 Saul was even more afraid of David. So Saul was David's enemy continually.

    30 Then the commanders of the Philistines came out to battle, and as often as they came out David had more success than all the servants of Saul, so that his name was highly esteemed.​

    In Deuteronomy chapter 20, we read that the affairs of war would take over that of the affairs of marriage (v. 7):

    ESV
    And is there any man who has betrothed a wife and has not taken her? Let him go back to his house, lest he die in the battle and another man take her.’​

    Solomon said, about how men are to act towards their wives, that they are to be "intoxicated always in her love":

    Proverbs 5 ESV
    18 Let your fountain be blessed,
    and rejoice in the wife of your youth,
    19 a lovely deer, a graceful doe.
    Let her breasts fill you at all times with delight;
    be intoxicated always in her love.​

    Do you think that, Saul's intention to bring about David's downfall was to cause his heart to be entangled (as it were) with the affairs of marriage while out on his wartime affairs?

    If so, can these "wartime affairs" be likened to any job occupation that a man assumes?

    If so, do you think that a man can be "intoxicated always in [his wife's] love", if he is to be at work, or can these two positions not be reconciled?
     
    #1 Jope, Aug 8, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2013
  2. padredurand

    padredurand
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    Yep. We are one flesh. Being physically apart does not change that.

    Well all day long while I'm working in town time slows down to a crawl
    When I'm not thinking about you, I'm checking the clock on the wall
    Then it's goodbye factory and hello love and there's a smile across my face
    'Cause I'm back in the arms of your sweet love
    Where my thoughts have been all day

    I'm having daydreams about night things in the middle of the afternoon
    And while my hands make a living my mind's home loving you
    I'm having daydreams about night things in the middle of the afternoon
    And every night you make my daydreams come true


    ~Ronnie Milsap - Daydreams About Night Things
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    King Saul was not trying bring down David via his heart being entangled with a woman. Saul thought he could entice David to become a member of the royal family by giving David a test that Saul thought David could not pass.

    Michal loved David, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that David loved her. In fact, he didn't live with her long - and she risked her life in helping him escape her father. Saul punished her by giving her to another man and she didn't see David for many years.

    The next time she DOES see him, he's got a harem.

    King Saul never said, "Here is my daughter that you love - get married."

    What he said was, "Why don't you become my son-in-law. All you have to do is kill 100 Philistines and bring me back their foreskins."

    Who the woman was - was completely irrelevant. First it was Merab - then Michal. There was no love match here.
     
  4. Jope

    Jope
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    LOL!

    I was definitely thinking of this song.

    I was also thinking of the tobymac song "made for me". Ever heard it?

    "'said I'd hold on loosely but I so wanna squeeze".
     
  5. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert
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    Saul's intentions in that passage were clear. He wanted the Philistines to kill David. See the portions of the passage you bolded plus vs. 25:
    Now Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines
    For Saul thought, “Let not my hand be against him, but let the hand of the Philistines be against him.”
    that the hand of the Philistines may be against him.”

    Rather than dying at the hands of the Philistines, David doubles-down on the dowry and kills 200 Philistines in lieu of the 100 Saul asked for. This makes him angry since he has inadvertently now given his enemy his own daughter, and his daughter loves him greatly.
    28 But when Saul saw and knew that the Lord was with David, and that Michal, Saul's daughter, loved him, 29 Saul was even more afraid of David. So Saul was David's enemy continually.
    Saul is disturbed because not only is God obviously on the side of David, but, so also, he dare not break his promise to David to make him his son-in-law, So he is now forced to give him his own daughter, who quite disturbingly, also loves David greatly. Saul probably saw Michal's love for David as a micro-cosm of the love that all the people of Israel had for David. His own daughter's love for David would become like a symbol of what would be, in his disturbed mind, a betrayal.
     
  6. Herald

    Herald
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    Jope,

    I think Saul's intent is clearly revealed in scripture.

    1 Samuel 18:21 Saul thought, "I will give her to him that she may become a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him."

    Saul's intent was for the Philistines to kill David in battle.

    The snare came later when Saul gave Michal to another man as his wife (1 Samuel 25:44). It continued when Michal despised David in her heart and was punished by the Lord through barrenness (2 Samuel 6:16, 23).
     

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