There is no doubt that God is sovereign in all things but more specifically for this discussion He is most definitely sovereign in regards to the salvation of man. We see in scripture that God decided before all of creation as we know it that He would provide salvation for the creation He knew would fail Him and rebel against Him. This is made clear in Ephesians 1:4. It is also clear that we are chosen by God for salvation. John 1:13 speaks to this when it makes clear that salvation is by the will of God. Man cannot provide for his own salvation but it has to come from the decision of God. There is no one else in all the universe that can provide salvation for fallen man. Scripture makes this clear further by use of terms like "predestined" and "the elect". Several verses that use these terms are 2 Peter 1:10; and Ephesians 1:5. But scripture is also clear that man has a responsibility to receive salvation. This issue is made clear in passages like John 1:12; 3:16; and Romans 10:9-10. Here we see, especially in the latter verse, the scriptural mechanics of just how that receiving is to occur. There is a responsibility on man's part which obligates us to 1.) believe, scripture makes it clear that mans is to respond to God by believing. This has always been the case. 2.) That mans is to respond by confessing. Abraham had righteousness because he responded with belief in the things of God. Scripture makes clear that belief is a response by man to God and the gospel. The verses following 9 and 10 leading up to verse 17 shows that the gospel is preached by man and man cannot respond without it but he does respond only because of it. Never the less man responds. There are two factors that hold man responsible to respond to the gospel. One has just been mentioned and it is the preaching of the gospel using the word of God. And the second is the testimony of creation that shows the glory and existence of God. Psalm 19:1 says that the heavens show God's glory and Romans 1:18-20 tells us that all of creation gives testimony to the lost about His existence and that is a factor in man's responsibility and accountability to responding to the gospel. Salvation is provided to man when he responds to the gospel. This was further illustrated by Zaccheaus. It was only after he responded to Jesus that Jesus declared that salvation had come to his house. It was only after Abraham responded to God that it was claimed by God that he was righteous. ___________________________________________________________ The purpose of this thread: 1. Do not attack the view of someone else. 2. Do not try to represent the view or logic of someone else. 3. Only try to make an opposing case using your position and your position alone. 4. This was the practice of Jesus in Matthew 5 5. Do not derail this thread by trying to debate how I am asking this thread be done. The issue here is the mechanics of salvation not rules 1-5 6. Also do not just post a link to something else and say go read this it is my position. Let's not be lazy here. I am only asking for this particular thread to be handled this way. If you find it difficult to do this then I am asking that you refrain from taking part in this thread. I have begun by sticking to these rules. Do you have the ability to do this as well?