can you help me with a bit of history?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by nodak, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. nodak

    nodak
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    I'm trying to track down some history of Baptist church services.

    We've lived where there seemed to be 4 different philosophies of what services should be. I'm trying to track a bit of history on each perspective.

    1. This view holds the purpose of the service is the proclamation of the gospel. Preaching, teaching, and singing are all aimed at that purpose.

    2. This view holds the purpose is that God is an "Audience of One" and we do services to bless God. I had a music minister who always put that "Audience of One" in quotes, so I assume someone famous said it. Can you tell me who? This leader wanted to put the songs up on power point so we sang looking up, so "God can see your faces while you worship Him."

    3. This view holds the purpose of the service is the improvement of life here on earth for the people attending. It falls in with the Christianity Today article about the question never asked anymore--"If you died today, do you know where you would spend eternity?" This view will tend more to sermons about money, marriage, sex, politics, relationships, addictions, etc.

    4. The last one we've encountered is the "intimate moment with God" type of service, where everything is designed to bring us into that. This type won't have much talk about sin, salvation, Biblical history, or doctrine. It will probably have lots of those "Jesus is my boyfriend" type songs and some preaching aimed not at repentance and belief, but at "just draw close to Jesus and let Him love you a while" as one preacher we had would say.

    I'm not looking for debates as to which is better--although each of us will probably prefer one over the others and may say so--but trying to track down the history of where each style got its start.

    Can you help me with this?
     
  2. Gold Dragon

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    That sounds like a very difficult thing to research but a good starting point may be Historic Baptist Documents by The Reformed Reader. He has one of the most comprehensive lists of historical baptist confessions and catechisms I have ever found and many of them should have sections on worship. They may not necessarily have enough info to fit one or any of your four categories.
     
  3. nodak

    nodak
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    Thanks!

    I did track down the audience of One idea. One website said it came from--here comes major misspelling I expect--Soren Kierkegard.
     
  4. 12strings

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    Historically, this is probably going to take you much wider than baptists for the origins of these, but as you say there are Baptists who have adopted each of these.

    I would say that the Biblical Church services were primarily gatherings of believers, with a few non-believers that might be present, so the MAIN focus was not necessarily evangelistic...It seems they did their preaching and witnessing in other settings.

    Based on verses like Col. 3:16 & 1 Cor. 14, I would say the focus of the Church assemblies was on worshiping God and the edification of the saints...However, it was not primarily, "how to have a good business." as much as a Gospel-centered reminder of Christ's sacrifice, and the basic life attitudes and practices that should flow out of it." The songs and messages were meant to "teach and admonish" one another, even while "giving thanks to God." So a historically biblical service would preach the Gospel message, realizing that the Gospel will both edify believers, and also convict non-believers who may be present.
     
  5. menageriekeeper

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    #4 sounds a lot like Anglican/Episcopal beliefs. You might start way back with them (like soon after their creation) and move forward to the breakaway of the Baptist groups to find what you are looking for. (note: the more liberal idea of "Jesus is my boyfriend" stuff probably started MUCH later in the non denom churches and then was picked up by Baptists. I've never attended a Baptist church with that outlook)

    You picked a difficult topic.
     
  6. Ryan.Samples

    Ryan.Samples
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    #4 actually sounds more Quaker to me. Not that all Quakers necessarily advocate this fourth perspective, but it sounds like what one might here in some of their camps today. Maybe the view therefore has some tie to their background (?).
     
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    You might be helped by researching the Baptists and Methodists of Wales. Both were churches that followed NT principles of worship and gospel, and put the Word and the word above all else.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Hey Jim....nice seeing you ....hope all is well with you & kin.

    Yes you just reminded me that I also need a more thorough study of those people but I find it hard to find books that are addressing it. Guess I will have to look harder.

    Go with God brother.
     
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    Hi mate,

    I don't come here and post very often. Got tired of all the rhubarb. Good to see you as well.

    The Welsh Baptists were the first to plant Baptist Churches in England. Those two churches still exist to-day and have the original concrete signs establishing their founding. Sort of puts myth to the so-called founding by Smyth, who never was a baptist.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    PS. There are a number of good sites on the net covering Welsh baptists. Books are rare and were mostly Welsh. Even St. Patrick had baptistic teaching. He was only made a saint by a pope after Patrick's death; never was Catholic.
     
  10. RG2

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    I think a lot of #3 seemed to become popular out of the seeker sensitive and purpose driven movements of the 90s. Then it just kept getting watered down.
     
  11. technol

    technol
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    Surely worship of an almighty, all knowing and everlasting God cannot be boxed into a category.

    Congregations are made up of individuals all of whom are at a different stage of their Christian walk and understanding.

    If a Baptist minister is to minister to the whole of their congregation then the type and style of service will need to differ from week to week. If it is always the same type of service, it is likely to only be of value to the same percentage of the congregation each week.

    I frequently worship and feel part of a congregation, but sometimes it's as though there is only myself and God present. Worship needs to reflect that, and more.
     
  12. OldRegular

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    I believe that Martyn Lloyd-Jones was a Welsh Methodist. Enjoy reading him, particularly his trilogy on God, but he did not hold to immersion as the proper mode of Baptism.
     
  13. OldRegular

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    nodak

    There is a good book by Mohler on worship services, He Is Not Silent
     

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