Cancer of torture at Abu Ghraib has metastasized

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Rufus_1611, May 17, 2007.

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  1. Rufus_1611

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    Cancer of torture at Abu Ghraib has metastasized
    David R. Irvine

    Last Sunday's Tribune Opinion section featured the grim story of Army Capt. Brian Freeman's capture and execution last January in Karbala, as wrenchingly told by his mother, who lives in Mendon, Utah. The same paper reported three more U.S. soldiers missing after an attack on their convoy. When other missing troops have been found, dead, their bodies show signs of mutilation and torture.
    In the three years since the cancerous photographs at Abu Ghraib came to light, the Army's acceptance of and resort to torture have made combat service in Iraq that much more dangerous for our forces there. We cannot claim Geneva Convention protection for our own troops because we have ourselves abandoned the Geneva protection due the Iraqis.
    The president and vice president have repeatedly denied that America tortures prisoners, but they choose their words carefully when they refuse to explain or deny the use of "unconventional" interrogation techniques which, by any reasonable definition, amount to torture.
    Recently, a group of retired flag officers began quietly meeting with the 2008 presidential candidates in an effort to help the candidates understand the stakes created by America's wrong-headed resort to torture. One well-known candidate stated the dilemma this way: "How can I take an absolute position opposing torture when many people believe that it works and that it's worth it if it prevents another 9/11?"
    The response of the generals and admirals was unequivocating: "It doesn't work, and the belief by a few that it does has cost us the respect of the world and our moral stature as a nation. As president you have to take a clear, no-exceptions stand against torture in any situation, because if you don't, that moral ambiguity will inevitably work its way down the chain of command, and every private will conclude that if the president sees exceptions for ticking time bombs, every improvised explosive device planted along my convoy route is for me a real ticking bomb. Once you open that door by so much as a crack, you have lost the ability to control what your Army will do."
    This week's Army Times reported the results of an Army-commissioned survey of Army and Marine combat troops in Iraq. According to those survey results, more than 40 percent believe torture should be allowed if it would save the life of a comrade. Fewer than half the polled soldiers and one-third of the polled Marines said that all noncombatants should be treated with dignity and respect.
    Nearly 40 percent said that torture should be allowed to gather information about insurgents, and 17 percent said that all noncombatants should be treated as insurgents.
    Abu Ghraib's cancer has metastasized. The issue for this broken Army isn't just whether it can control violence in Iraq; it's also whether commanders have lost control of their troops' commitment to Army values and common humanity.

    ...​
     
  2. hillclimber1

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    This is part of the disassembly of the greatest nation, and military fighting force on earth. Liberals are making war impossible.
     
  3. Rufus_1611

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    ..........

     
  4. tragic_pizza

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    Torture isn't a liberal-or-conservative matter.

    Torture is both morally reprehensible and ineffective. Torture me to get information, and at some point I will make stuff up to make it stop. Thus, at any level, information derived from torture is unreliable.

    Torture exists moerely to break the spirit of an enemy. Where this becomes "OK," Scripturally, is beyond me.
     
  5. Bro. Curtis

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    Tom Tancredo at the GOP debate......

    "I'm looking for Jack Bauer".

    Good for him. Seems like the rest of the thinking men on stage echoed his sentiment.

    "Torture" is the new catch phrase for anything the left doesn't like.

    This is tiresome.
     
    #5 Bro. Curtis, May 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2007
  6. Rufus_1611

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    Jack Bauer is a psychopath.
     
  7. tragic_pizza

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    You know, folks if Rufus and I are agreeing on something, it might be worth looking at.

    Just saying.
     
  8. Rufus_1611

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    It just means the end is getting closer ;)
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

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    I've never watched the show. But you and I probably will never see eye to eye on this issue. I say get the info. High pressure techniques are fine with me.
     
  10. tragic_pizza

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    And this is Scriptural how?

    Show me the Bible, Curtis. I like you, but this is over the line, dude.
     
  11. Rufus_1611

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    They are not "high pressure techniques". That expression is newspeak so politicians don't have to use the word "torture" and sound like animals. The "high pressure techniques" that Bauer uses include:

    • Beating
    • Suffocation
    • Electrocution
    • Drugging
    • Psychological abuse
    • Cold-blooded murder
    • and more


     
  12. Bro. Curtis

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    Nope. I've tried to talk with you about the bible, and you only get nasty. I'm fine with how you feel.
     
  13. tragic_pizza

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    Hey, OK.

    You hold a position that is counter to Scripture. Enjoy that.
     
  14. carpro

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    The ticking time bomb, nuclear style, usually causes the most ardent appeaser to pause and rethink their opinion of "torture".

    The usual response:

    "In a case like that, it would be OK.":thumbs:

    Or they begin to tremble uncontrollably as a result of their moral dillema. Poor babies.:tear:
     
  15. Rufus_1611

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    There's no moral dilemma. If one has to become a bad guy to defeat a bad guy, one bad guy remains.


    "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:21
     
  16. carpro

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    And then there are the totally clueless...:laugh:
     
  17. tragic_pizza

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    I see. Scripturally sound = totally clueless.

    Enjoy that, carpro.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    I'm not just looking at.
    I'm looking up now. Literally. (That cloud seems to have someone sitting on it, hmmmm).
     
  19. tragic_pizza

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    OK, then, give me Scriptural justification for supporting torture.

    Anyone.
     
  20. Bro. Curtis

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    Now if I had done that to you, you be whining. Don't put words in my mouth, T.P. I hold a position counter to your interpretation, and I know better than to discuss scriputre with you, and I am fine with whatever your opinion is, of me.
     
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