Candidates of Apostasy; Are you one?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by vooks, Feb 28, 2016.

?

Is there any chance of completely renouncing your faith?

  1. Yes

    22.2%
  2. No

    77.8%
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  1. vooks

    vooks
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    In all likelihood all of us can name an individual off their head who they consider to be a text-book example of apostasy. While of course few would consider themselves apostates and Christians at the same time, very few Christians, in my opinion, ponder their chances of going rogue and turning apostates.

    Is there any chance of completely renouncing your faith....treading underfoot the Son of God,counting the blood of the covenant that sanctified you as unholy, and despising the Spirit of grace like the subject of this verse?

    Hebrews 10:29 (KJV)
    Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    .

    PS
    Please include a brief rationale for your answer.
     
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I said no but we have no idea what we will do when faced with great persecution as those disciples left Jesus and no longer followed him. Where else is there to go for a stranger and sojourner on this earth?... Hopefully when that time comes if ever I can rest in the words spoken by Simon Peter... Brother Glen

    John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

    6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
     
  3. vooks

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    @tyndale1946 ,
    You can't apostasize.
    Can you therefore conclude that the warnings against apostasy are irrelevant to you seeing there is ZERO chance of you apostasizing?

    Again, you are at no risk for apostasizing anymore than you are at the risk of putting springs in your shoes and jumping to the moon. Is this true?
     
  4. Browner

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    When heavy-duty persecution of Christians arrives in your country, MANY professing believers will be so upset by their churches
    that they will run from the faith.

    If this doesn't get them, being faced with accepting the mark
    of the beast surely will ... i.e. MANY will choose the mark
    over watching their family starve to death, etc.

    Yes, a huge percentage of today's Laodicean church (Rev 3)
    will be so upset at being deceived, misinformed, lied to, etc.
    that they will choose to become apostate.

    The false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine
    will be the major cause of this disastrous situation!
    No one in America is going anywhere ...
    except into FEMA concentration camps.
    Get ready ... Prepare!
     
  5. vooks

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    I agree
    Pre-trib was invented to pamper the lukewarm church. Works like a charm
     
  6. revmwc

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    So you have proof positive that your theory of eschatology is true in order to call someone else's false?
     
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    That is what I said and btw there are two forms of Apostasy... (1) a falling away from key and true doctrines of the Bible into heretical teachings that proclaim to be “the real” Christian doctrine, and (2) a complete renunciation of the Christian faith, which results in a full abandonment of Christ... According to this definition relating to number one and what Browner said I agree but according to the OP and number two of this definition I still say NO!... Brother Glen
     
  8. Pastor_Bob

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    II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    By the help and grace of God I sincerely hope that I am not one who would "fall away" from the truth of God's Word. However, better men than me have indeed done just that. If Peter, who walked side-by-side with God's Son for 3 1/2 years could deny that he even knew Him, I would be a fool to declare that I could not possibly do the same.
     
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  9. TCassidy

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    I believe true believers can fall away from truth but cannot fall away unto perdition. I believe, before God would allow that, he would call His child home.
     
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  10. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I agree but this also poses a question if Peter didn't deny him would he not be standing in the way of the mission that Jesus' Father sent him to do?... Get thee behind me Satan!... Brother Glen
     
  11. Pastor_Bob

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    I'm not sure that I understand the question. If Peter would have acknowledged his association with Christ, he "possibly" would have been arrested as well. They were looking to arrest Jesus that evening and they did just that. One can only speculate that Peter denied the Lord out of his fear of the crowd. I honestly do not see how Peter would have been standing in the way of Christ's mission. It was clear that His hour had come.
     
  12. vooks

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    Interesting. It seems you have an imaginary line of error beyond which God would rather kill his children than see them cross it. Do you know of the line? What are its distinguishing marks?
     
  13. vooks

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    I agree wholly with you @Pastor_Bob.
    Is there any risk in teaching otherwise, that apostasy is impossible for some men?

    Personally I find that if you are persuaded you are under no risk of apostasy, you would be more carefree
     
  14. vooks

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    Permit me to ask,
    Does any of the apostasies carry eternal consequences?
     
  15. David Michael Harris

    David Michael Harris
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    God does not make a mistake. If your called to Glory to Glory you will go. Even if you mess everything up. It's called Salvation, and it's by Grace and not by works.
     
  16. revmwc

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    Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:
    1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
    2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
    3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
    4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
    5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
    6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
    7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
    8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
    9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
    10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

    I was taught that this was the discipline unto death. They lied to the Holy Spirit.

    Then we see how the sin unto death would work, 1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
    1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
    As well as we see 1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    The believer who walks in sin after turning from God, if they are in apostasy or gross sin will be turned over to satan for destruction. So God will turn t hem over. so there is a discipline unto death as seen in an immediate death for lying to the Holy Spirit and a sin unto death for blaspheme and gross sin.
     
  17. Pastor_Bob

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    I believe there would be grave consequences for such teaching. It would cultivate a prideful mindset and God clearly hates and resists pride.

    Will all men turn back? Certainly not. Are all men capable of turning back? Absolutely.

    Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
    32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


    Satan desires to destroy each and every child of God. The world, the flesh, and the devil war against us each and every day. Thank God we have a great High Priest praying for us daily! May we all keep our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.
     
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  18. TCassidy

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    I think the question is, does such turning back equate to losing salvation or just losing rewards in heaven?
     
  19. revmwc

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    If they are truly saved then loss of rewards in eternity
     
  20. Pastor_Bob

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    Turning back - apostatizing - is simply turning away from a previously held truth. At some point, you were convinced of this truth and then you consciously turned your back on that truth.

    I am a firm proponent of the security of the believer. Even those who are said to "fall away" from the truth are still saved.

    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out
    .
    John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


    A foolish and unlearned question would be, "Can't a man pluck himself out of the Father's hand?" My response is, "When Jesus says 'no man' that means 'no man,' not even the man himself." Jesus said, "My Father is greater than all..." that includes each and every man. Once you're in the Father's hand, you will not be cast out nor will you be able to climb out. Why would anyone want to?
     
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