Can't we All Just Get Along?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Matt22:37-39, May 31, 2013.

  1. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    IS THE TEACHING OF A LITERAL 6 DAY CREATION REALLY ALL THAT IMPORTANT? Some would say no and some like me would say yes. Does it affect my salvation or how to get saved?...NO. Is it a big enough doctrine to separate over?...NO. Does it matter when it is all said and done?...YES.

    Here is why. Error of doctrine at any point of GENESIS in the bible, will often lead you to other false teachings. If you mess with GENESIS you messed with the whole foundation. Everything after is a fulfillment of the book of Genesis. Romans is another book I have found to have so much TRUTH in it, to me it is all there, of what we need. Romans just may be the foundation for the New Testament as Genesis is for the old. Often one can go to any book and go back to these two and find a similarity.

    Anyway, point being, if a BELIEVER holds to a “gap theory” or an evolutionistic scientific view of creation, don’t you think that is a LIE Satan will use to keep one from TRUTH…it did me. One would actually be amazed at all the SCIENTIFIC PROOF that points to a literal 6 days, more than the other way around. Although growing up, I knew in my head that there was ONE TRUE GOD and that Jesus was it, and that He died for my sins and all…BUT, what about evolution and Adam and Eve how did we all get here, blah, blah,,blah?….The LIE I was taught in school kept me from knowing God sooner. I could have died during that time and almost did. Your Christian kids are being lied to in their public schools and colleges and you believe the lie too? Wonder what else they can convince them of?

    To not believe in a literal 6 day creation is to also not take God at His word, so if we can’t take Him at His word “IN THE BEGINNING”…then how can I in the rest of the word? Like I said about basic hermeneutics…One must take the bible LITERAL unless stated otherwise, because that is the one trick Satan uses for DECEPTION and OFFENSE. When one doesn’t take at first glance scripture literally like you would do anything else you may read, THEY become the AUTHORITY of what God’s word says and not God. That is what ALL religions and cults do, and is what Lucifer did in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. He basically said, “Oh it ain’t a big deal, God didn’t mean what He said to you, think of it this way, at a different angle”…I KNOW BETTER? Wow, pretty bold stuff there.

    If only the church would stop preaching/teaching “Topical, Relational, Feel Good” sermons (they should not be the norm) and start dissecting the word of God like Paul commanded us to do….2 Tim 2: 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Paul also goes on to talk about those desiring MILK and not MEAT. 1 Cor and 1 Peter. We have many babies in the church today, and then we wonder why there is such immaturity and why many sheep are wounded and hurting…knowledge is the first step of WISDOM. Actually the true meaning of WISDOM is it comes from God and it is the RIGHT USE OF KNOWLEDGE.

    So to say, “it doesn’t matter what we believe as long as it is Jesus and Love, can’t we all get along?”..is only partially true (remember Satan mixes truth with lies) for if he can get us to be OFFENDED, that is what causes dissension…we are called to be of “One Accord”…to be “Of The Body”…to be “Of Like Mind”…to be “One With The Spirit”…we can’t do this if we believe the LIES!

    We also must not be naive enough to think God has not allowed Satan to PLANT his “Wolves In Sheep’s Clothing” or the “Tares Among The Wheat”…He has, and their desire is to REPRODUCE just as much as God’s real sheep desire to do so. But, in a bad way though, and many don’t even realize the tool they are being at that moment. Satan’s other reason is to just plain DESTROY the good sheep. But the one who is SOUND in truth is the one who will prevail.
     
  2. agedman

    agedman
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    I really think you are making much ado about what is not, at this point, in a uneducated believer very important.

    JUST as you, as an uneducated believer grew in grace and knowledge of the Scriptures, they will be lead by the Holy Spirit to fluff off that which the Holy Spirit intends. Remember THAT is the job of the Spirit of God - to teach us all things...

    You would do far more to determine to edify the folks in a non-threatening way.

    By your original post, you seem to not be dealing with theologians, nor are you dealing with mature believers.

    It is mostly unessential to a young uneducated believer whether God did the work in 6 twenty - four hours or in ages/stages. There are far more important principles of Scriptures to encourage edification in their life at this time.

    Besides the Big bang is actually part of the whole story of Creation:
    God said it and BANG it happened. :)

    Applying humor will lead more toward the principle - God said it, I believe it, - than any argumentative attitudinal approach.

    Don't forget proverbs - answer a fool or don't answer a fool, depending on if their foolishness is really going to potentially hurt others - that is physical bodily harm.

    In this case it just isn't that important at this time.

    PLEASE don't misunderstand, the topic will become important as the believer matures and the subject is revisited time and again. Just as it was to you as you matured in Christ.

    Each time it is revisited, will present educational moments (not long drawn out blustering dialogue) in which a wise believer can bring edification and enhance the truth.

    Just your statement that there is another view, is enough to peak the interest and open discussion in which you can insert little tidbits.

    Just don't argue!!!!!!

    Be patient, and don't run ahead of the folks expecting them to follow you - chances are they won't.
     
  3. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    Math 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
     
  4. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    Ageman...No one argued, for one I have NO voice I have laryngitis, I just walked out after being ganged up on. But since their own pastor doesn't agree with them but me...I think things will be fine. BTW, you were not there so please do not assume...this truth in op can apply for just about any subject.

    BTW, find something someone said that was true and acknowledge it...Surely I said something right in my posts? Kind of hard to listen to someone who you feel doesn't care...just saying...;)

    "NO ONE CARES HOW MUCH YOU KNOW TIL THEY KNOW HOW MUCH YOU CARE"
     
  5. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    :)...agreed
     
  6. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    If we didn't have some differences of opinion on some things, this board would be quite boring.

    The problem is not that we disagree. The problem is how we disagree.

    The solution is to disagree without being disagreeable.
     
  7. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    I just can't help but think when we get to heaven there won't be all kinds of opinions/beliefs...either God created everything in 6 days or He is a liar...somethings are not differences of opinion.

    I guess that would make the Mormons, Jehovah, Catholics, Muslims etc right too?
     
  8. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    BTW, the ones who disagreed with me like 6 of them, disagree with their own denomination and the head pastor and others I'm sure in the church..they are causing division and that isn't right.
     
  9. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    …..or there could be another perspective. It’s not as black and white as you might think. And if someone looks at the Creation account differently than you doesn't automatically make God into a liar.

    I do believe in a Youngish Earth. 6,000 years? No, but also not millions of years. I don’t know if the days of creation were literal or not. Could God have accomplished all of that in 6 days? Well, of course. That’s not the issue. The issue is about the creation itself not having supernatural powers like God and being able to "produce", "sprout", and "number" as fast as God.

    For example:


    Day 6 –
    • God made all the animals.
    • God made Adam.
    • God made the Garden of Eden.
    • God put Adam in the Garden.
    • The water from the Garden flowed out of the Garden and became the source for 4 rivers.
    • God put Adam to work to take care of the Garden.
    • God commands Adam not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge.
    • God decides that Adam shouldn’t be alone.
    • God makes all the animals from the ground and brings them one at a time to Adam to name. Adam names them all.
    • God puts Adam to sleep and creates Eve from him.
    • God presents Eve to Adam and Adam says, “At last! At last! Bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh”
    That’s an awful lot going on – not for God, because God can do anything. But for ADAM. Did he really start working the Garden, get instruction on the Tree of Knowledge, and name all the animals in a matter of hours? His exclamation at seeing Eve was one of “At last!” – implying a longer time than 24 hours.

    It’s not a hill I’m willing to die upon and I have a couple of other issues involving a literal 6-day plan. (Speed of light issues and age, day 3, day 4, and chapter1 vs. chapter 2 issues) But again, I have no doubts about God’s part. God can do literally anything.

    God did give the Israelites a command to observe a literal 6 day work week and rest on the 7th, but God’s creation “week” didn’t have to be literal days for the command to apply. The fact that He described it in 7 “days” is the key. He also commanded them to observe Sabbath years in crop-growing.

    My questions – and the questions of others regarded a literal or figurative interpretation of 6 days doesn’t interfere with the belief that God is the Creator and made all things. And for me, it doesn’t make the Bible contain errors or cast doubt on what God says is true.

    I don’t think the purpose of the Creation story is to prove how fast God can work.

    God could have done all of that in 6 nanoseconds, if He so chose. It proves to me that God is Sovereign and is Whom He says He is.

    And therefore .... everything else after Genesis 1 and 2 is to be believed and obeyed.
     
  10. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    yes it is and I proved it and I could even present more...one if you don't take the bible literally at face value you become the author of God's word...IF THE PLAIN SENSE MAKES COMMON SENSE, SEEK NO OTHER SENSE.

    Sorry but some things are black and white and this is one of them. It is ones UNDERSTANDING that is faulty not God's word. The cults and other religions can say exactly what you juts said and they are still wrong....cause it isn't TRUTH.....Might want to study a little more.
     
  11. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    Question: "Does Genesis chapter 1 mean literal 24-hour days?"

    Answer: A careful examination of the Hebrew word for “day” and the context in which it appears in Genesis will lead to the conclusion that “day” means a literal, 24-hour period of time. The Hebrew word yom translated into the English “day” can mean more than one thing. It can refer to the 24-hour period of time that it takes for the earth to rotate on its axis (e.g., “there are 24 hours in a day”). It can refer to the period of daylight between dawn and dusk (e.g., “it gets pretty hot during the day but it cools down a bit at night”). And it can refer to an unspecified period of time (e.g., “back in my grandfather's day...”). It is used to refer to a 24-hour period in Genesis 7:11. It is used to refer to the period of daylight between dawn and dusk in Genesis 1:16. And it is used to refer to an unspecified period of time in Genesis 2:4. So, what does it mean in Genesis 1:5-2:2 when it's used in conjunction with ordinal numbers (i.e., the first day, the second day, the third day, the fourth day, the fifth day, the sixth day, and the seventh day)? Are these 24-hour periods or something else? Could yom as it is used here mean an unspecified period of time?

    We can determine how yom should be interpreted in Genesis 1:5-2:2 simply by examining the context in which we find the word and then comparing its context with how we see its usage elsewhere in Scripture. By doing this we let Scripture interpret itself. The Hebrew word yom is used 2301 times in the Old Testament. Outside of Genesis 1, yom plus a number (used 410 times) always indicates an ordinary day, i.e., a 24-hour period. The words “evening” and “morning” together (38 times) always indicate an ordinary day. Yom + “evening” or “morning” (23 times) always indicates an ordinary day. Yom + “night” (52 times) always indicates an ordinary day.

    The context in which the word yom is used in Genesis 1:5-2:2, describing each day as “the evening and the morning,” makes it quite clear that the author of Genesis meant 24-hour periods. The references to “evening” and “morning” make no sense unless they refer to a literal 24-hour day. This was the standard interpretation of the days of Genesis 1:5-2:2 until the 1800s when a paradigm shift occurred within the scientific community, and the earth's sedimentary strata layers were reinterpreted. Whereas previously the rock layers were interpreted as evidence of Noah's flood, the flood was thrown out by the scientific community and the rock layers were reinterpreted as evidence for an excessively old earth. Some well-meaning but terribly mistaken Christians then sought to reconcile this new anti-flood, anti-biblical interpretation with the Genesis account by reinterpreting yom to mean vast, unspecified periods of time.

    The truth is that many of the old-earth interpretations are known to rely upon faulty assumptions. But we must not let the stubborn close-mindedness of some scientists influence how we read the Bible. According to Exodus 20:9-11, God used six literal days to create the world in order to serve as a model for man's workweek: work six days, rest one. Certainly God could have created everything in an instant if He wanted to. But apparently He had us in mind even before He made us (on the sixth day) and wanted to provide an example for us to follow.


    Why did God rest on the seventh day of creation (Genesis 2:2)?

    Why is a day measured from evening to morning in Genesis 1?

    How could there be light on the first day of Creation if the sun was not created until the fourth day?

    Why are there two different Creation accounts in Genesis chapters 1-2?

    What happened on each of the days of Creation?


    Question: "What is biblical hermeneutics?"

    Answer: Biblical hermeneutics is perhaps summarized best by 2 Timothy 2:15, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Biblical hermeneutics is the science of properly interpreting the various types of literature found in the Bible. For example, a psalm should often be interpreted differently from a prophecy. A proverb should be understood and applied differently from a law. This is the purpose of biblical hermeneutics—to help us to know how to interpret, understand, and apply the Bible.

    The most important law of biblical hermeneutics is that the Bible should be interpreted literally. Literal Bible interpretation means we understand the Bible in its normal/plain meaning. The Bible says what it means and means what it says. Many make the mistake of trying to read between the lines and come up with meanings for Scriptures that are not truly in the text. Yes, of course, there are some spiritual truths behind the plain meanings of Scripture. That does not mean that every Scripture has a hidden spiritual truth, or that it should be our goal to find all such spiritual truths. Biblical hermeneutics keeps us faithful to the intended meaning of Scripture and away from allegorizing and symbolizing Bible verses and passages that should be understood literally.

    A second crucial law of biblical hermeneutics is that a verse or passage must be interpreted historically, grammatically, and contextually. Historical interpretation refers to understanding the culture, background, and situation which prompted the text. Grammatical interpretation is recognizing the rules of grammar and nuances of the Hebrew and Greek languages and applying those principles to the understanding of a passage. Contextual interpretation involves always taking the surrounding context of a verse/passage into consideration when trying to determine the meaning.

    Some mistakenly view biblical hermeneutics as limiting our ability to learn new truths from God's Word or stifling the Holy Spirit's ability to reveal to us the meaning of God's Word. This is not the case. The goal of biblical hermeneutics is to point us to the correct interpretation which the Holy Spirit has already inspired into the text. The purpose of biblical hermeneutics is to protect us from improperly applying a Scripture to a particular situation. Biblical hermeneutics points us to the true meaning and application of Scripture. Hebrews 4:12 declares, "For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." Biblical hermeneutics is keeping the sword sharp!


    Why is it important to study the Bible in context? What is wrong with taking verses out of context?

    What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?

    What is good Biblical exegesis?

    How can we know what parts of the Bible apply to us today?

    What is Biblical typology?
     
  12. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Yes. Compared to you, and that they disagree with you must needs mean that they are all you've slandered them to be. They are all in their churches causing division -- and the reason they do this is because they disagree with you. You're THAT big.

    - Blessings

    p.s. You really ought to listen to Scarlett O. A woman of wisdom who disagrees with you as well. :thumbsup:
     
  13. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    You plagiarized gotquestions.org in the above and never gave proper credit. Yes, you do these things to make YOU look good. But the thing is this is nothing short of being deceitful.

    - Blessings
     
  14. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    These people are LEFT OVERS from several pastors who have been involved in sin and left this church (I go to 2 btw, and went to a different one today with a friend, who had a missionary speak)...Now that God has cleaned house at the church I came back to after many years, knowing the leadership wasn't what it was suppose to be. I have come back under SOUND LEADERSHIP. too bad they in the group had been lead astray by some false teachings.

    I listen to God and write what He tells me to write just like a preacher or missionary does the same....basically anyone who listens to His voice He will use...I'm sorry you are listening to the wrong voice...that of the enemy.
     
  15. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    just shows you don't read what i write or you would know that is from gotquestions.org...bet you were waiting months to find the one time I didn't put the link...boy you are worse than I thought...tares among wheat...wolves in sheep's clothing...that is what comes to mind.
     
  16. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Nope. You plagiarize what YOU tells YOU to plagiarize. :thumbsup:

    Fact. :wavey:

    - Blessings
     
  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    You gave no credit -- made pretense it came from you.
     
  18. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    Thanks for the tip. It hadn't occurred to me to study anything. (*sigh*)

    As for gotquestions.org, I am quite familiar with that site as it is my homepage. I've read that particular commentary before, more than once, and thought they were a little strict on the interpretation of the literal days.

    I really like the site, but find that they are a little Calvinistic, a little hard on women, and a little strict in some interpretations, but I use it as my homepage anyway, because it helps me in my preparations for Sunday School.

    Sister, I wasn't attacking you. I was only trying to explain why not adhering to a literal 6-day period doesn't make God a liar nor put the rest of the Bible in doubt.

    I am not a evolutionist nor a Christian-evolutionist. I believe the universe was created in the manner that God said. I just don't believe that the outlining of the 6 "days" was to give a time frame of God's work, but to show an orderliness of the work and to build a foundation by which the rest of the Bible is to be believed and obeyed.

    It could have been 6-24 hour periods ...... or not. I see room for the "or not".
     
    #18 Scarlett O., Jun 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  19. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    OK, Scarlett thank yoU for your explanation.

    I have an old video tape series on CREATION there are 8 of them. The first one goes through THE AGE OF THE EARTH...just that alone, so obviously there is more proof of a literal 6 day creation than there is evolution.

    I personally have foUnd gotquestions.org to be pretty sound...I haven't found it to be the way you say, but then again I'm a bit old fashion by nature although very strong as a woman as well....who knows maybe I haven't come across what you are talking about. I only look it up to see if what I believe or say is accurate, and I find that it often is...like I said I was taught by one of the best and I have a solid foundation.

    peace...:)

    CREATION SEMINAR SERIES BY DR. KENT HOVIND
     
  20. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    BTW, no one has answered me on the fact that if all PLANTS and VEGETATION (flowers etc) NEED other creatures to reproduce and survive then how in the world (pardon the pun) could the plants and vegetation survive thousands of years let only one year?

    See right there God made sure His word was true when He said He created everything in 6 days....there is much more but we can start with that.

    I FOUND THIS FORUM A GREAT DISCUSSION ON HOW PLANTS NEED ANIMALS

    http://learningcenter.nsta.org/discuss/default.aspx?tid=1d4!plus!!plus!w5PK6s_E
     
    #20 Matt22:37-39, Jun 2, 2013
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