Catholic or Protestant ? : ANSWERS

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by DanielFive, Jun 13, 2003.

  1. DanielFive

    DanielFive
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    This is a short test containing 10 simple questions about justification by faith.

    In surveys to date, this questionnaire has demonstrated the startling fact that a very large proportion of Protestants are more Catholic than Protestant in their concept of justification.


    Please record your answers to the 10 questions. In each of the following 10 choices, mark either (a) or (b), whichever is correct for you.


    1
    (a) God gives a man right standing with Him-self by mercifully accounting him innocent and virtuous.
    (b) God gives a man right standing with Him-self by actually making him into an innocent and virtuous person.


    2
    (a) God gives a man right standing with Him-self by placing Christ's goodness and virtue to his credit.
    (b) God gives a man right standing with Him-self by putting Christ's goodness and virtue into his heart.


    3
    (a) God accepts the believer because of the moral excellence found in Jesus Christ.
    (b) God makes the believer acceptable by infusing Christ's moral excellence into his life.


    4
    (a) If a Christian becomes "born again" (regenerate, transformed in character), he will achieve right standing with God.
    (b) If the sinner accepts right standing with God by faith, he will then experience transformation in character.


    5
    (a) We receive right standing with God by faith alone.
    (b) We receive right standing with God by faith which has become active by love.


    6
    (a) We achieve right standing with God by having Christ live out His life of obedience in us.
    (b) We achieve right standing with God by accepting the fact that He obeyed the law perfectly for us.


    7
    (a) We achieve right standing with God by following Christ's example by the help of His enabling grace.
    (b) We follow Christ's example because His life given us right standing with God.


    8
    (a) God first pronounces that we are good in His sight, then gives us His Spirit to make us good.
    (b) God sends His Spirit to make us good, and then He will pronounce that we are good.


    9
    (a) Christ's intercession at God's right hand gives us favor in the sight of God.
    (b) It is the indwelling Christ that gives us favor in God's sight.


    10
    (a) Only by faith in the doing and dying of Christ can we fully satisfy the claims of the Ten Commandments.
    (b) By the power of the Holy Spirit living in us, we can fully satisfy the claims of the Ten Commandments.

    I'll post the answers here in a few days or whenever all the regular posters have had a chance to take the test. If anyone wants to know the answers in the meantime please pm me and I'll get back to you.

    I scored 9 out of 10 Protestant.

    Hopefully this should open up an edifying discussion into the doctrine of Justification which is so central to our different beliefs.

    God Bless

    Enda

    [ June 17, 2003, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: enda ]
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Except for 10 -

    The contrast in 9 above is the contrast between Justification and Sanctification.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. DanielFive

    DanielFive
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    Bob,

    The test is on Justification, you are only asked to identify what happens when one is justified by faith. Feel free to take the test, I'm sure you'll have no problems.

    Enda
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    But this is not a poll - how can I take the test?

    Bob
     
  5. DanielFive

    DanielFive
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    Bob,

    You can post your answers here. eg. 1.a, 2.b, etc. etc.

    I'm sure you are confident enough about your theology to answer publicly. Alternatively you can remain anonomous if you pm your answers to me. I will post the answers later without revealing any names. (others have done this already with some interesting results)

    God Bless

    Enda
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    1
    (a) God gives a man right standing with Him-self by mercifully accounting him innocent and virtuous.
    (b) God gives a man right standing with Him-self by actually making him into an innocent and virtuous person.


    A - Justification by faith.

    The second idea is only of any significance in final judgment of Matt 7, 12:38 and James 2 and Romans 2:13-16, 2Cor 5:8-10


    2
    (a) God gives a man right standing with Him-self by placing Christ's goodness and virtue to his credit.
    (b) God gives a man right standing with Him-self by putting Christ's goodness and virtue into his heart.



    A - Justification by Faith

    - The New Creation - is not "right standing" -



    3
    (a) God accepts the believer because of the moral excellence found in Jesus Christ.
    (b) God makes the believer acceptable by infusing Christ's moral excellence into his life.


    A - Justification by Faith.

    The second option - only applies in the future Corportate/objective/external judgment mentioned above in 1


    4
    (a) If a Christian becomes "born again" (regenerate, transformed in character), he will achieve right standing with God.
    (b) If the sinner accepts right standing with God by faith, he will then experience transformation in character.



    B -

    However - Being Born again "is not transformation of Character".



    5
    (a) We receive right standing with God by faith alone.
    (b) We receive right standing with God by faith which has become active by love.


    A - "By Faith apart from Works" Rom 3:28

    The second choice is only valid in the future objective/external/corp judgment.


    6
    (a) We achieve right standing with God by having Christ live out His life of obedience in us.
    (b) We achieve right standing with God by accepting the fact that He obeyed the law perfectly for us.


    B - Justification.

    The first option is only applicable in the future judgement.


    7
    (a) We achieve right standing with God by following Christ's example by the help of His enabling grace.
    (b) We follow Christ's example because His life given us right standing with God.


    B - Justification facilitates Sanctification


    8
    (a) God first pronounces that we are good in His sight, then gives us His Spirit to make us good.
    (b) God sends His Spirit to make us good, and then He will pronounce that we are good.


    A - sort of.

    God first sends His Holy Spirit to "Draw us to Christ" and to "Convict us of Sin and Righteousness and judmgnet". The Holy Spirit moves on the unconverted heart "like the wind" John 3.

    We then choose Christ and salvation is immediate - the New Birth takes place "by the Power of the Holy Spirit" and we live life "by the power of the Holy Spirit".


    9
    (a) Christ's intercession at God's right hand gives us favor in the sight of God.
    (b) It is the indwelling Christ that gives us favor in God's sight.


    A - Christs higpriestly role as our "ONE Mediator between God and man" gains access to God for us.

    (Christ indwelling us is a direct result of the blessings gained by Christ at the right hand of the Father).


    10
    (a) Only by faith in the doing and dying of Christ can we fully satisfy the claims of the Ten Commandments.
    (b) By the power of the Holy Spirit living in us, we can fully satisfy the claims of the Ten Commandments.


    A - Justification - the moment of Salvation.

    Since we are all sinners - we can never erase our own debt/guilt/condemnation. But we can choose obedience instead of rebellion against the Law of God according to 1Cor 10 "God IS FAITHFUL" who will not "ALLOW" you to be tempted beyond that which you are able... He will provide the way of escape with EACH temptation".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. Kathryn

    Kathryn
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    Test

    1b
    2b
    3b
    4a
    5b
    6a
    7a
    8b
    9b
    10b
     
  8. DanielFive

    DanielFive
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    Thanks Bob and Kathryn.

    Bob, could you check your pm please.

    God Bless

    Enda
     
  9. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
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    1: (c) God gives a man right standing with Himself by washing his sins away in the blood of Christ.

    2: (c) God gives a man right standing with Himself by washing his sins away in the blood of Christ.

    3: (c) God accepts the baptized believer because his sins were washed away by the blood of Christ.

    4: (c) A believer is born again (regenerated) in baptism. (Johnn 3:5, Titus 3:5)

    5: (c) Read James chapter 2.

    6: (c) We don't "achieve" right standing with God. (Key word: achieve - no boasting)

    7 (c) We don't "achieve" right standing with God. (Key word: achieve - no boasting)

    8: (c) God washes away our sins in Christ's blood and spiritually resurrects us (in baptism Colossians 2:11-13)

    9: (c) We must have had unmerited favor in His sight prior to both, since He did send His Son to die for us. Doesn't the Scripture say that "the grace of God hath appeared unto all men"?

    10: (c) Commandments aren't claims, they're commandments.
     
  10. DanielFive

    DanielFive
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    The story so far:

    Bob - Justification by Faith.
    Kathryn - Justification by works.
    Sola - Justification by Baptism.
     
  11. Kathryn

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    I am justified by Grace:
    "Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."—Rom. 3:24.

    God Bless
     
  12. Jude

    Jude
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    I'm okay with 'justification by faith', but not 'justification by faith alone'. In regard to the former, I'd also want to define faith as trust and obedience, all reliant on the grace of God...so that 'no man can boast'.
     
  13. BobRyan

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    When you "come to Christ" you don't have any "works" or even "obedience" to commend you to Him.

    He is the one who "draws all mankind unto Him" John 12:32 before we ever start to come to Him.

    Then He is the one that "Convicts us of Sin and Righteousness and Judgment" while in that lost state (John 16).

    So all we can do is "open the door" for He says "I stand at the door and knock - if Anyone hear My voice AND opens the door I WILL come in" Rev 3:20. Our "Acceptance" is then - through Christ alone - by faith apart from the works of the Law and our acceptance full and complete at the very instant of salvation.

    "For with the Heart man Believes resulting in Rigteousness and with the mouth he Confesses Resulting in Salvation" Rom 10:10

    There is no "But first he must study and pray and finally choose to be Baptized and then he is saved". Rather the INSTANT of the "Appeal to God for clean conscience" by the lost sinner - he is saved 1Peter 3:21.

    This deals only with the moment of salvation the instant we choose to OPEN the Door.

    Much has also been said on this thread about what amounts to "perserverence" - I agree with that view of perservering IN that first love IN that first encounter with Christ. I agree that when the tree is made good - at the START - then the fruit is good. (Matt 12:30-38, Matt 7)

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. Kathryn

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    Please define what non-Catholics here believe Grace is. Thanks!
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Grace - unmerited favor.

    God choosing to "So Love the World that He Gave His only begotten Son".

    God choosing to "Stand at the door and knock so that if ANYONE hears His voice AND OPENS the door" He comes in and fellowships with them.

    Umerited Favor so that "IF anyone is in Christ he is a NEW creation - behold old things have passed away ALL things have become new.". 2Cor5.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. neal4christ

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    Amen to that! [​IMG]

    Neal
     
  17. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Grace according to the Universal Catechism of the Catholic Church is the free and undeserved gift that God gives us to respond to our vocation to become his adopted children.
     
  18. Carson Weber

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    For everyone's information, the Catholic Church has defined - at Trent - that our justification is nothing other than our becoming sons of God in the only Son of God.

    The question is whether (a) we are merely "called" children of God or whether (b) we are actually "become" children of God. Is our divine sonship merely forensic and legal or is it real and transformative, without denying the legal aspect?

    I believe the Bible is quite clear on the matter:

    "But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God" (John 1:12).

    "that you may be blameless and , children of God without blemish" (Phil 2:15).

    "See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are" (1 John 3:1).

    "Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven" (1 Cor 15:49).

    "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous" (Rom 5:19).
     
  19. DanielFive

    DanielFive
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    Council of Trent (1545-1563)

    "Following on from this disposition or preparation is justification itself, which is not only the remission of sins but also the sanctification and renovation of the interior man through a voluntary reception of grace and the gifts, so that man being unjust becomes just, and from being an enemy becomes a friend."

    "If anyone says that men are justified either by the mere imputation of the justice of Christ, or simply by remission of sins, without grace and charity, which is diffused in their hearts and inheres in them through the Holy Ghost, or even that the grace by which we are justified is simply a favour of God, let him be anathema".
     
  20. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
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    1.a
    2.a
    3.a
    4.b
    5.a
    6.b
    7.b
    8.a (with clairifcation in bold)
    (a) God first pronounces that we are good in His sight (at the moment we surrender to His call to salvation), then (immediately) gives us His Spirit to make us good.

    (b) God sends His Spirit to make us good, and then He will pronounce that we are good.

    9.a
    10.a
     

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