Catholics teach that only they go to Heaven

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by church mouse guy, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    This new Pope said recently what many Protestants thought that
    Catholicism still taught in that he said that Catholicism was the
    only way to Salvation. This puts him outside of Protestant thinking
    in that Protestantism does not teach that there is Salvation only
    within a certain denomination but that Salvation is common to all
    denominations that teach the traditional, historic beliefs of
    Christianity.

    Here is one link to a news report on what the Pope said:
    http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070711/news_1n11church.html

    Here is part of what the Pope said:

    "LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy – Pope Benedict XVI reasserted the
    primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released
    yesterday that says other Christian communities are either defective
    or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to
    salvation."
     
  2. ReformedBaptist

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    I think the pope is quite happy to remain outside Protestant thinking, and I am quite happy for him to stay out of it too, unless he repents.
     
  3. Eliyahu

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    There is NO salvation in the Roman Catholicism.
     
  4. Zenas

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  5. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    This new pope does not mince words.

    Actually, the RCC has been consistent in saying that there was no salvation outside of the walls of the Roman Catholic Church. However, American Catholics have tried to say that this doctrine did not exist or had been discontinued. However, legally, it has stood. This new pope does not mince words. It shows the ugly side of Catholicism.

    The document says:

    Christ “established here on earth” only one Church

    Thanks, Zenas, for the link!
     
  6. Melanie

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    This is actually rather interesting...true that the Roman Catholic Church has always taught this....being that the Head of the church is Jesus our Lord...but it is also careful in saying that we (that is mankind) should not try to presume the mind of God who afterall is the only One who can read mans heart and mind.

    I find this very consoling. After all you can be Catholic and hellbound....having the name tag of a Catholic, Christian or Callathumpian does not mean you go straight up, nor straight down...it is the relationship one has with the Divine that matters most....this is my understanding anyway:godisgood:
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Everyone knows I oppose RC doctrine on a number of points and certainly it is true that historically the RCC has argued that BECAUSE there is no salvation outside the RCC -- the heretics among dissenting Catholics and Jews could not be saved.

    But with Vatican II they changed to the point of "finding some non-Biblical means" for non-Catholics to go to heaven.

    They still argue that the New Covenant is for Catholics and Catholics ALONE -- and that Protestants are saved only by some non-biblical made-up means that happens to work.

    But at least they consider them to be saved.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. Melanie

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    ............ah Bob but the poor RCC certainly took a bizarre turn at vatican 2......it is not possible for the RCC to upturn several hundreds of years of teaching because it thinks modernism is KEWL.....mind you I am a very conservative Catholic....who prays daily for the pope because by goodness gracious me he certainly NEEDS every pray to stand up to the current ecumenical modernistic madness:praying:
     
  9. Eliyahu

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    The Ecumenical Movement doesn't work against RCC, though RCC has not been a member of it, but just a observer.
    I believe RCC works behind the Ecumenical.

    RCC is dragging the biggest net in the world history to catch all the fishes in the world, and they will succeed superficially.

    But the problem is that RCC doesn't guarantee the happiness to her members as the true happiness comes from the peace with God and the most of Catholicism is not consistent with the Words of God in the Bible.

    The doctrines or any claim that the Salvation belongs to any denomination or any group of churches are absolutely wrong, because Salvation belongs to Individual Faith. This is why I didn't say "there is No salvation in RCC" but I said " there is NO Salvation in the Roman Catholicism"
     
  10. BobRyan

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    BG - Well I agree that there are those who object to the turnaround the RCC did on some subjects in Vatican II.

    But anytime the pre-VII subjects come up we always get hammered by RC proponents if it happens to be something that was changed in VII and they claim we should not present the topic as if the RCC still teaches it.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    This new pope does not mince words.

    Vatican II did muddy the waters. Pope John XXIII tried to open up the windows and let in some fresh air. However, he failed. The legal position still stood. However, American Catholics have been taught to make nice with American Protestants for the time being. And true, the RCC was worried about communism during the cold war and began talks with the Eastern Orthodox denominations and the Anglican communion.

    However, this new pope clarified that nothing ever changed legally--and he is an expert on RCC dogma:

    "LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy – Pope Benedict XVI reasserted the
    primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released
    yesterday that says other Christian communities are either defective
    or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to
    salvation."
     
  12. Eliyahu

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    That's the typical attitude of RCC in the countries where the Catholics are not majority but the Protestants are majority, a strategic retreat of one step.
     
  13. Matt Black

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    Re the OP - answer, no. Try reading Lumen Gentium (1965) upon which Dominus Jesu and the present papal pronouncements rest. Paragraphs 14 and 15 are particularly germane to this question.
     
  14. church mouse guy

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    Matt, this concerns official Vatican law

    Matt, the current pope, an expert in dogma, is doing his best to explain to the world that in spite of rumors to the contrary nothing has changed in Vatican law concerning the ugly dogma that there is no Salvation outside of the walls of the RCC.

    It is good to hear from you, Matt, and everyone else as well.

    It is my experience that American Catholics either deny that there is such a dogma that only Catholics go to Heaven or deny that they themselves believe their own dogma completely, yada, yada, yakety, yak, yak (don't talk back). Catholics never apologize; one asked me if I believed every word of my church's doctrine, and I could say that, yes, I believe every word of the Baptist Faith and Message,

    http://www.sbc.net/bfm/default.asp

    However, Matt, I close with a paragraph from your link saying that there is only one church in the world:

    This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as "the pillar and mainstay of the truth".(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.
     
  15. Darron Steele

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    Catechism of the Catholic Church 838
    This is the Vatican's document.

    The Vatican, at present, teaches that non-Catholic Christians will be saved with the church on the basis of their "imperfect communion" with the Catholic organization.

    I agree with this. I do believe that there is salvation IN SPITE OF Roman Catholicism.

    I believe Christians who believe Catholicism will be saved alongside Christians who do not by their following of Jesus Christ.
     
  16. steaver

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    Nothing ever can change lest they admit they were once wrong! The chief dogma is they can never be wrong and this therefore traps them where they stand. At best they attempt to add to an ammendment to the dogmas, but must never flat out reject what they have already established as truth. They are bound by their very own curse they placed upon themselves when they claimed to be the final interpreting authority hearing directly from God Himself, claiming they could not ever possibly be wrong.

    God Bless! :thumbs:
     
  17. church mouse guy

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    The new pope has made things clear.

    Darron, I don't see that the Catecchism that you have quoted says that there is any Salvation outside of Catholicism. It merely states that we are talking with groups such as the Anglican Communion and the Eastern Orthodox denominations--"joined in many ways"--but not under the successor of Peter. Nor do I see how you reach your conclusion that the non-Catholic is saved by imperfect communion with Catholicism.

    This is what the Catholics hope that you think but the pope reminded people during his vacation in Italy recently that there was no Salvation outside of Catholicism and that has been the correct legal position of the RCC since the papal bull of Unam Sanctum in 1302, which states quite clearly:

    Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins...

    Don't let the confusion among the Catholic laity, especially in America, confuse you. When you get to Italy or Latin America or Ireland, the Catholics there will be quick to tell you that all non-Catholics are going to hell according to Catholic dogma--an ugly dogma that the Vatican wishes to hide from Americans.
     
  18. Eliyahu

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    I believe that there can be salvation inside RCC not because of the Roman Catholicism, but because of the Bible in their hands or for some other opportunities to have fellowship with the Christian believers.

    However, there is NO salvation in the Roman Catholicism itself.

    For example, if a Catholic firmly believe in the Purgatory theory, then he believes that he will go to the Purgatory and expect he can get out of the Inferno by virtue of the prayers and alms-givings by his descendants.

    As you know, his descendants would never do prayers and alms-giving enough to satisfy God and His standards. Nobody will get out of Purgatory by virtue of human alms-giving and prayers if any Purgatory exist, because Nothing but the Blood of Jesus can change the Spiritual status of any human being. Otherwise, Jesus didn't have to shed the Blood and die the cruel Death at the Cross. In this case he has to choose between Purgatory with Inferno and the Heaven.

    If anyone believes that she should spend tens of thousand years at the purgatory, she can hardly expect the Lord Jesus is coming soon and the New Milennium will start soon and she will be there in the New Milennium, but she would expect to find herself in the Inferno instead of the New Milennium. In this case she should choose one between Purgatory or New Milennium.

    That's only for Purgatory.

    Prayers to the Dead, including the prayer to the Dead woman, Mary.
    We are supposed to pray to the Father in the Heaven ( Mt 6::cool:, but 1.3 billion people are praying to Mary. How can Mary accept the prayers from 1.3 billion people all around the world? She must have become Omni-Present, Omni-Scient to understand all the prayers in all languages.
    While she was on this earth, she didn't know where her son was ( Luke 2:44-50), She wasted 3 days in finding him, then was rebuked by her son.
    She couldn't understand what her son was talking about ! ( Luke 2:50)
    That's why she came along with her unbelieving sons to Jesus(Mt 12:46-50), maybe because she wanted to tell Jesus that He should not preach any more as His reputation is getting worse.

    How could the capacity of Mary become so much Omni-Present and Omni-Scient to understand all the prayers for all the problems of automobile, airplane, computers, houses, schools, medical problems and health matters all around the world? Her capacity must have exploded in the minds of the goddess worshippers! Can they still find the True God and pray to the Only God?

    I doubt that anyone can still be saved while she or he still believe in the Catholicism such as Purgatory, Baptismal Regeneration, Prayer to Mary, Prayers to the dead, Immaculate Conception, etc, because they are also related to the wrong concept of Salvation.

    How can people go to the Heaven while they themselves never believe that they would go to the Heaven, but believe that they go to the Inferno?

    The Only thing that they will find is that Inferno is permanent because nobody can get out of there by any amount of alms-giving or any amount of prayers.
     
    #18 Eliyahu, Sep 11, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2007
  19. Zenas

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    CMG, it is difficult to reconcile your quote from Unam Sanctum (1302) with the current controversial document, whose title is "RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH." The current document, for example, has this to say about the "separated churches": “It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”.
    While I would not pretend to know the minds of the authors of these two statements, we can understand from history that in 1302 the Reformation had not occurred. The only Christian church in the world was the Catholic Church. Therefore it was not a particularly great leap to say that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. (Hopefully, all posters on this board would agree that there is no salvation apart from Christ.)

    Two hundred years later, the Reformation came along and there were many churches with different doctrines, all calling themselves "Christian." Whereas non-Catholic Christians were unknown and unthinkable in 1302, they are not today. For this reason, I don't think it is a contradiction in their doctrinal statements. Rather, they have modified Unam Sanctum to address the reality of other Christian churches all around them. Is it a change? Yes. Is it a reversal? No. It is like scientists modifying the laws of aerodynamics after the Wright Brothers showed us how to fly.
     
    #19 Zenas, Sep 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2007
  20. church mouse guy

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    Zenas, you are forgetting 1054 AD

    Zenas, you are forgetting 1054 AD. 1054 AD is the year that the Eastern Orthodox churches split from the Bishop of Rome. That was almost 500 years before the Protestant Reformation, the greatest event in European history.

    The pope has made it clear what the total legal position of the RCC is. He is closing all windows that Pope John XXIII might have left open for fresh air. This pope is an expert in Catholic Vatican law and dogma, and he has clarified for Catholics that if they leave the RCC, they will go to hell along with all other non-Catholics.

    The olive branches that Protestants have grasped at in the USA are illusions in that they do not reflect cannonical law, which the pope fully understands.

    When one examines the persecution of Protestants and Eastern Orthodox by Catholics in Latin America, Italy, Ireland, and other staunch Catholic strongholds the ugly application of this ugly doctrine that only Catholics are saved is clearly seen.
     

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