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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tinytim, Oct 26, 2010.
So what do you all think of this book?
Never read it. Do you have a link maybe?
In doing a little research about it just now, I'd be very careful with it. It sounds like it's very new-agey to me.
I seem to remember that title from somewere. Both the title and the authors name ring a bell.
If it is the book I am thinking of, there were some pretty serious problems with it.
I have had to read it for a required class at Liberty. Honestly, it is VERY new agey, as is the other required textbooks for the course. What is wrong with Liberty? Their Bible classes are conservative, engaging, and use great texts; but all of their secondary courses use HORRIBLE textbooks. My DSMN 601 course (teaching/preaching) used a disgustingly liberal book, "Communicating for Change" by Andy Stanley. I am VERY disappointed with these classes (FYI the instructors were great...just not the texts.)
I am NOT an apologist either for LU or against, but, did you learn something even from a bad book? I think sometimes, not always, that is the intent in book choice, to force you to read critically. Again I am not saying that is the case.
This is one of the books we are studying this week in Seminary, and I frankly love it. Yes, it's different, but God has worked wonders IN me this week.. through meditation, I found hidden anger I have had for yrs, and called the person I was angry with, and a relationship was reconciled.
Rank heresy I say. It is the wholesale introduction of mysticism and Roman Catholocism into the evangelical churches. That fact that its required reading in a seminary is disgusting.
These folks do a great job exposing the new age crap coming through the ranks of evangelicalism.
Ok, just what is heresy about sitting still before the Lord, listening for him, and contemplating and reflecting on what He is showing you? How is that heresy?
God was in the still small voice to Elijah.
This way of praying, meditating is opening up many new thoughts.
For instance, Monday morning, we were in our circle, and we had to remember our baptism. Relive it in our memory... going down in the water, letting the water cover us, coming out of the water.. etc. then we were to reflect on what that experience meant to us.
Well, when I was remembering coming out of the water, I remember an uncle of mine coming to the shore to hug me.. (I had forgotten that, but when I was forced to slow down, in silence I remembered it)... this is the uncle that our family didn't get a long with, and i realized I had anger toward him.. .deeep hidden anger... that I didn't know I had, and I heard God telling me.. ."Call him to say you love him... do it today".. .well of course it wasn't an audible voice, but the inward small voice of God all Christians hear if they are listening...
Short story... I called him up, and we reconciled.
How can this be bad. It is not unbiblical... Be still and know I am God.... etc..
I'm interested to know what you mean by "disgustingly liberal" about Communicating for Change. Hubby is using it to teach another pastor how to better communicate his message (he can be very long winded and giving too much information that leaves the congregation lacking) and it's been going great.
Could you be specific about what you didn't like about that book?
Foster's book is a good one imho.
I've read it, grown because of it, and utilize some of its recommendations for my daily disciplines.
It is bad, Tim, because it's not Biblical. Yes - be still and know that He is God but do not sit and empty your mind then start going into guided imagery and listening to a man that is not even a believer. He's a Quaker and a Gnostic. There is grave error in his teaching.
I'd ask you to look up contemplative spirituality and do some study on it.
I've read bits and pieces of his work and this certainly does not sound Biblical but instead satanic:
""In your imagination allow your spiritual body, shining with light, to rise out of your physical body. Look back so you can see yourself...and reassure your body that you will return momentarily...
Go deeper and deeper into outer space until there is nothing except the warm presence of the eternal creator. Rest in his presence.
Listen quietly...[to] any instruction given."
From Gary Gilly:
Celebration of Discipline, alone, not even referencing Foster’s other writings and teachings and ministries, is a virtual encyclopedia of theological error. We would be hard pressed to find in one so-called evangelical volume such a composite of false teaching. These include faulty views on the subjective leading of God (pp. 10, 16-17, 18, 50, 95, 98, 108-109, 128, 139-140, 149-150, 162, 167, 182); approval of New Age teachers (see Thomas Merton below); occultic use of imagination (pp. 25-26, 40-43, 163, 198); open theism (p. 35); misunderstanding of the will of God in prayer (p. 37); promotion of visions, revelations and charismatic gifts (pp. 108, 165, 168-169, 171, 193); endorsement of rosary and prayer wheel use (p. 64); misunderstanding of the Old Testament Law for today (pp. 82, 87); mystical journaling (p. 108); embracing pop-psychology (pp. 113-120); promoting Roman Catholic practices such as use of “spiritual directors,” confession and penance (pp. 146-150, 156, 185); and affirming of aberrant charismatic practices (pp. 158-174, 198).
Ann, I read some of the negative things about the book before taking this class.. He does NOT teach to empty our minds, but to focus on God.
And this piece that you quote from is NOT in this book.. I have seen references saying that this quote is supposed to be around page 24 or so, and I have looked for it.. but it's not there. Where is it in this book?
Which ones?.. I have been using silent imagery prayer... and it is amazing the peace it brings..
Simplicity and Solitude also will be in my regular practice.
I often sat in the quiet of my study and virtually "emptied" my mind and allowed new thoughts to take up my time. It led to faster sermon preparation and a greater concentration on the scripture at hand.
You might be amazed at how many evangelicals read the writing of a blatant liberal like Harry Emerson Fosdick, who even denied the trinity. There was much to gain in other areas of his books.
After all my years, these liberal and even charismatic books never altered my evangelical theology. In fact, they made me stronger.
A lot of criticism often comes from those with an agenda of their own.
In 1978, Quaker and CT advisory editor Richard Foster wrote Celebration of Discipline. His book, which introduced Catholic and occult meditative techniques to evangelicals, sold more than a million copies and was selected by Christianity Today as one of the top ten books of the 20th century. Foster later formed Renovaré, an organization dedicated to teaching spiritual formation through the mystical beliefs and practices of the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Desert Fathers. Eugene Peterson (CT editor), author of the very popular paraphrased Bible, The Message, was the New Testament editor of the Renovaré Spiritual Formation Bible.
The apostle Paul warned the Ephesian elders in Acts 20:28-31:
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
God says: Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. (Isaiah 26:3)
From the Southern Baptist Seminary website:
The book is highly recommended by the pastoral staff at Saddleback Megachurch.
The alleged quote from Celebration of Discipline is so heavily edited, stripping words that don't fit the "New Age" allegations that the expose writers want to support, that it is pretty much a lie.
Anyone who wants to verify that fact can check Google Books online and compare the texts.